Is it ok to check AK here?

[KSOT]

It was my second live SNG of the night, mostly with strangers. I was brought along by my friend who knew one of the players there. I won first place in the first tourney, so none of them wanted to see me repeat. This meant they were all calling my big pre-flop raises and then pushing all-in at any opportunity.

So on the bubble with 4 people left, blinds at 50/100 (started with 1000 chips each), I'm dealt A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif UTG. I make it 300 to go and this little 16 year old 'whiz kid' type who had been calling all of my pre-flop raises that game did just that on the button. Flop came T /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I check in an attempt to rope him in further, he checks behind me. Turn is the J /images/graemlins/heart.gif which I don't really like. I put in 500, he takes some time, then calls. River is low blank, I put in another 500, he goes all-in for 260 more, I call and pay off his queen.

Was my flop check really that terrible or did I just get unlucky? After the flop, could I have gotten away from that hand at any point? Should I have known to check/fold the river?

[Maulik]

it wasn't terrible but it was bad.

noobs love playing broadway cards. I'd bet that heavy. but once that turn comes almost any two broadway cards made a straight.

[lastchance]

On an AKT board, checking is absolutely terrible.

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
On an AKT board, checking is absolutely terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were an AK6 rainbow board, would checking be wise?

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have known to check/fold the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's very player dependent. However, he did take a long time to call; if he did this with any flourish at all, the combination of calling a bet on a board that you are almost certain to have hit and the one-card-nut-hand being so obvious should tip you off. In live poker against weak opponents, tells like this are very accurate--he's acting weak, so he's strong.

Suppose he really called with any hand. The only hands I could see him having here that actually take time to call are weaker ace, two pair, set. There are 64 possible weak aces, 4 hands that tie, 33 worse two pair, 14 sets, and 168 straights. Now, suppose he plays Q9+. That drops the straights to 56. If he plays Q9o+ and Q2s+, then he has 63 straights.

Thus, even if he calls on the river with a weak ace, your bet on the turn is correct if he used some discretion in calling ( 97/70 = 1.39:1 on your chips, or 97/77 = 1.26:1). But, if he has the sense to fold a weak A here, your bet is quite clearly incorrect ( 33/70 = .47:1, or 33/77 = .43:1). Also, if he really was calling with any hand preflop, your bet is wrong (97/168 = .58). Combine the two, and you're getting a dismal 33/168 = .196.

So, don't bet.

If he bets all in, should you call?

The call is 760 and there's 1750 in the pot, giving you 2.3:1. Does he have a 30% chance of betting this pot with the worst hand?


Now, that was all simply for cEV. Given that this is a SnG, I think check/fold should be correct to almost any opponent.

Also, "is checking OK?" What hands will pay you off here that won't pay you off later?

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, "is checking OK?" What hands will pay you off here that won't pay you off later?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I guess I was hoping he'd take a stab at it with nothing like I felt people had been doing to me. What it really comes down to I think, is that it was late at night, I had just won $180 and I wasn't hungry to win anymore. I got careless.

[pokerlaw]

If a player is calling all of your raises, why not make it more than 3XBB w/ AK?

i always bet this flop.

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
If a player is calling all of your raises, why not make it more than 3XBB w/ AK?

i always bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I hadn't made many PF raises over 3xBB up 'till then, so I didn't know if he'd call more. Besides, keeping my PF raise at a consistent 3x had been working well for me. Just a few rounds before I busted one of them with AK when he went all-in over the top of my standard raise with a low pocket pair.

[freemoney]

lol so you sucked out? way to trap.

[KSOT]

Winning a race =/= sucking out genius.

And I never said I trapped. I just said the standard raise had been working out for me.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a player is calling all of your raises, why not make it more than 3XBB w/ AK?

i always bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I hadn't made many PF raises over 3xBB up 'till then, so I didn't know if he'd call more. Besides, keeping my PF raise at a consistent 3x had been working well for me. Just a few rounds before I busted one of them with AK when he went all-in over the top of my standard raise with a low pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is extremely results oriented, and not a good way to play poker. Don't play AK to get people to reraise you in with small pairs because you're a dog to a pair; definitely don't be afraid to take the blinds with AK, and definitely definitely don't be afraid to charge a calling station more to call when you figure to be ahead.

[ QUOTE ]
Winning a race =/= sucking out genius.

And I never said I trapped. I just said the standard raise had been working out for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK is a dog.. you don't want your money in here.

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
This is extremely results oriented, and not a good way to play poker. Don't play AK to get people to reraise you in with small pairs because you're a dog to a pair; definitely don't be afraid to take the blinds with AK, and definitely definitely don't be afraid to charge a calling station more to call when you figure to be ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I wasn't betting into him alone. I was under the gun betting into the whole field. Secondly, whatever happened to the idea of keeping your PF raises consistent so that people can't ever tell if you have a good hand or are just trying to steal?

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
AK is a dog.. you don't want your money in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was a pretty sizeable chip leader at that point. Why wouldn't I want to taker a near even-money shot at busting a short stack?

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is extremely results oriented, and not a good way to play poker. Don't play AK to get people to reraise you in with small pairs because you're a dog to a pair; definitely don't be afraid to take the blinds with AK, and definitely definitely don't be afraid to charge a calling station more to call when you figure to be ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I wasn't betting into him alone. I was under the gun betting into the whole field. Secondly, whatever happened to the idea of keeping your PF raises consistent so that people can't ever tell if you have a good hand or are just trying to steal?

[/ QUOTE ]

"consistent" doesnt have to mean always 3X BB. especially in a live game, using a range (ex: 3-5X BB) is a good idea.

[AliasMrJones]

Flop check is really bad.

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
I was a pretty sizeable chip leader at that point. Why wouldn't I want to taker a near even-money shot at busting a short stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the chips you win are usually worth less than the chips you lose. Read Tournament Poker for Advanced Players by David Sklansky. If you are a lot worse than the field you are against you want to take near even-money shots. But in that case you shouldn't be playing in the game at all.