Whats my river play here? In a tight spot.

3/6 Borgata

The Villian is a decent player, not a donk. He just got sucked out on a big hand though and lost half of his buy in. He could be steaming a little.

Hero is in the BB with Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif, Villian is in the SB. UTG+1 limps, MP1 and MP2 limp. SB Raises, BB calls, everyone else calls.

Flop comes

K /images/graemlins/spade.gif10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Villian bets. Hero raises, 3 limpers fold, Villian calls

Turn comes
10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Villan bets, Hero calls.

River comes:

A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Villian checks, Hero ???

[GoHoosiers]

Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[HolyBejeesus]

This spot doesn't seem very tight. In fact, it's a very easy bet. Also don't raise the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[brazilio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's the wrong play, and your tight spot is about as loose as that stripper that jason_t [censored] in vegas.

[ QUOTE ]
This spot doesn't seem very tight. In fact, it's a very easy bet. Also don't raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should I not raise the flop?

[HolyBejeesus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you hit your OESD, you will definitely win the pot. There is no reason to drive out limpers, you have no hand to protect. You should welcome them by calling.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's the wrong play, and your tight spot is about as loose as that stripper that jason_t [censored] in vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ok, you told me raising the flop is the wrong play........please elaborate on that.....

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you hit your OESD, you will definitely win the pot. There is no reason to drive out limpers, you have no hand to protect. You should welcome them by calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh ok that makes sense now....now lets say I had the same hand and was on the button. A raise here would be good on the flop? The freecard play may work

[HolyBejeesus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you hit your OESD, you will definitely win the pot. There is no reason to drive out limpers, you have no hand to protect. You should welcome them by calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh ok that makes sense now....now lets say I had the same hand and was on the button. A raise here would be good on the flop? The freecard play may work

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. If you had all the limpers between you and the bettor, you could trap them all for 2 bets, and possibly even get a free card. It would be a combined value-free card play.

Note that since you only win with an ace or a 9, you have the same equity heads up as you do 5 handed, giving you an edge in the multiway pot, and a deficit HU.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you hit your OESD, you will definitely win the pot. There is no reason to drive out limpers, you have no hand to protect. You should welcome them by calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh ok that makes sense now....now lets say I had the same hand and was on the button. A raise here would be good on the flop? The freecard play may work

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. If you had all the limpers between you and the bettor, you could trap them all for 2 bets, and possibly even get a free card. It would be a combined value-free card play.

Note that since you only win with an ace or a 9, you have the same equity heads up as you do 5 handed, giving you an edge in the multiway pot, and a deficit HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for this explanation it helps a lot. So with a strong draw such as an open ended straight draw or a flush draw it would be correct to just call the flop if there are limpers behind me and raise if I am last to act.

If I have a weak draw such as overcards to the board, on a ragged flop lets say. Then raising from my original position is correct to protect my hand, and raising on the button would be correct to try for a free card play. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to clear things up.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth did you raise the flop?


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an open ended straight draw, when I raise here I force the limpers to call 2 bets cold. I have a tight image at the table and have only showed down good hands at this point. I think its the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's the wrong play, and your tight spot is about as loose as that stripper that jason_t [censored] in vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

[HolyBejeesus]

[ QUOTE ]
If I have a weak draw such as overcards to the board, on a ragged flop lets say. Then raising from my original position is correct to protect my hand, and raising on the button would be correct to try for a free card play. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to clear things up.

[/ QUOTE ]

NP. If you are in late position with overcards, you can try a freecard play, but you should only do it against particularly passive players, because if you get 3-bet or donked on the turn the play was wholly unprofitable.

If you are directly after the bettor, a raise can be useful if you can drive out a hand that has you reverse dominated - for example if you have AK, on a flop of Q 8 4, you would like to fold out A4 and K8. However, a lot of times (in loose or aggressive games) you are better off just calling and folding the turn UI.

Sfer's thread "Flop" is about hand protection with overcards and the discussion there is better than what I can give.

[jookiebrown]

with no flush draw on the board you want everyone in the game while you draw at the nut straight. in this case 2 sb gets 2sb from one opponent, if you dont raise you have the opportunity to get 3 sb for just one. I may be wrong but it should improve your implied odds having the extra players in there.

[cdxx]

[ QUOTE ]

I think it's the wrong play, and your tight spot is about as loose as that stripper that jason_t [censored] in vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

[BBD]

On the end I think you're good here a lot of the time, so I'd bet/call. I don't think we need to raise the flop, the overcall would have put a few more bets in the pot, no flush draw there so if we hit our hand we're almost certainly good. JMO