I'm tommo and I'm a poker addict

[tommo]

Alright, so I figured I had to admit it somewhere and this is as good a place as any. I'm a poker addict. Sometimes I want to stop playing and I can't, I always come back.

I go to a very good university and have always done extremely well grade wise (3.8 gpa) up until I started playing poker. I still do pretty well, averaging a 3.4 (since I started playing poker) but thats a noticeable decline in my grades. I used to be incredibly social and now I don't see my friends nearly as often as I used to.

I'm a fairly smart guy and have always thought I'd like to start a company or something after college but I'm not sure I'll be able to do that with this poker addiction.

I play the 200nl-1000nl tables depending on time (I look for fish at all levels) and I average about $32-$4k a week. I've played over 100,000 hands like this and am fairly confident I can keep up this win rate. The question I have for you guys is

when do I quit?

I guess its really just a question of what I really want in life but I'm not really sure what that is. As it is, I make more money than most the adults I know but I've lost the motivation and determination that I was once so proud of. Its not uncommon for me to spend 8 hours playing poker in a day just to feel sick and unfulfilled at the end of it. I just have no idea what I can do with my life after college. I'm a math and physics major but I've hated all the tedious internships I've ever had . Does anybody hire poker players?

I'm a junior in college and am honestly afraid of what happens next. I hate internships, I don't relish the idea of sitting in front of a computer screen 6-8 hours a day playing poker for a living and I can't think of what else I could possibly do. Should I up and quit poker and concentrate on grades this year? Should I just try to make as much money as I can and see if I can turn that into a successful business after college? Should I just go wherever my addictions take me and [censored] thinking about the future?

well...I don't expect too many replies, I just had to admit to myself that I'm an addict and I should probably decide whether or not thats a problem for me.

[chekraze]

heavy........it sounds like you don't actually enjoy playing though from the sound of your post.

if u do enjoy it and you can consistently make $$$ then that's not too bad, except for the effect it's having on your social life and grades (please get the degree with as high a GPA as u can) and the fact this may be a true addiction.

i'm thinking it may be time to visit a counsellor or someone at your school to get soem good advice on this. i'm sure there is a service for students at your school that is also free.

[TStoneMBD]

im in a similiar boat as you tommo. finish your degree, thats for certain but you already knew that. money creates options and opens doors, so make it while you can. your degree will create more options than those that do not have a degree, but those options might not provide happiness for you. when you are not sure what you want out of life, channel your energy into expanding your options.

[Indiana]

Tommo,

my advice to you is to play professionally. Trust me, I have a 9-5 job making big bucks and I'm completely bored and sick. I plan to go pro as soon as I get my game back on the right track. Dude, just quit school and return later if you want to. There's nothing wrong with playing poker professionally and I would bet that you will end up playing pro anyway once u see how much a 9-5 cubicle job sucks. American companies are very political and you will never move up to the "boys club" unless u kiss a lot of ass and sell your soul along the way. Play lika pro.

Indy

[ QUOTE ]
Tommo,

my advice to you is to play professionally. Trust me, I have a 9-5 job making big bucks and I'm completely bored and sick. I plan to go pro as soon as I get my game back on the right track. Dude, just quit school and return later if you want to. There's nothing wrong with playing poker professionally and I would bet that you will end up playing pro anyway once u see how much a 9-5 cubicle job sucks. American companies are very political and you will never move up to the "boys club" unless u kiss a lot of ass and sell your soul along the way. Play lika pro.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

This advice is about on par with "never raise with AK pre-flop"

[Indiana]

Ok then Pretel, what do you suggest? This guy has tasted financial freedom without having to drive 30min one way through traffic to go suck his boss' ass. You really think he will be happy working a boring ass corporate job?

Please advise,

Indy

[ChicagoTroy]

I advise you you're an idiot. This guy's academic and social life is declining because he has an unhealthy preocupation with gambling. The answer isn't become a professional gambler any more than telling an alcoholic he should become a professional drinker.

[ QUOTE ]
Ok then Pretel, what do you suggest? This guy has tasted financial freedom without having to drive 30min one way through traffic to go suck his boss' ass. You really think he will be happy working a boring ass corporate job?

Please advise,

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because your job sucks doesn't mean his will. Its not his fault that you are a coward with no ambition.

People who graduate with a 3.8 from a good school generally have lots of opportunities open to them - and if you have an ounce of ambition, you can turn those opportunities into a rewarding career.

Maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why YOU stick with a job you hate so much. Something tells me that it isn't all just about waiting for your "game to get back on the right track"

[ QUOTE ]
I advise you you're an idiot. This guy's academic and social life is declining because he has an unhealthy preocupation with gambling. The answer isn't become a professional gambler any more than telling an alcoholic he should become a professional drinker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy sh*t - you mean you can get PAID to drink??

Why was I not informed!!!???

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Indiana]

You guys give this guy no valuable advice whatsoever. If he is making this kind of $ then why shouldn't he go pro. America is the land of second chances and he can go back to school later if he wants...For now he can live the dream if he wants and save a fortune in the process. And by the way, I don't hate my job anymore than the next guy. Thing is, all these 9-5 jobs suck because they become routine and repetitive. I'm just trying to give this guy a piece of my experience here. What are you giving him? You are telling him to quit what he does well so he can make less money being a conformist and getting prostate cancer sitting in a cubicle for the rest of his life like a caged animal.

suck my nut sack,

Indy

[TStoneMBD]

indiana, im pro and I AM making this kind of money and i find your advice trivial. im sure many other pros will agree.

[Indiana]

Could you please explain what is wrong with this advice?

Indy

[ QUOTE ]
You guys give this guy no valuable advice whatsoever. If he is making this kind of $ then why shouldn't he go pro. America is the land of second chances and he can go back to school later if he wants...For now he can live the dream if he wants and save a fortune in the process. And by the way, I don't hate my job anymore than the next guy. Thing is, all these 9-5 jobs suck because they become routine and repetitive. I'm just trying to give this guy a piece of my experience here. What are you giving him? You are telling him to quit what he does well so he can make less money being a conformist and getting prostate cancer sitting in a cubicle for the rest of his life like a caged animal.

suck my nut sack,

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said he should quit playing poker?

All I am saying is that he should maintain some balance - play poker, but keep up his studies and graduate. There are very few things in life that you will NEVER lose - and one of them is a university degree.

Its not always so easy to go back to college. You never know what life will throw at you. And what exactly does he have to lose by finishing his studies? A year or two of playing full-time poker? Last time I checked, you can pretty much play poker until the day you die - not like he is missing out on his "prime" or anything by finishing school.

You have an extremely narrow view of professional work. You seem to think that people just wind up stuck in meaningless, repetitive jobs. I suggest, again, that this is because you lack ambition and drive and so you find yourself stuck in a job like the one you describe.

But none of that really matters. He should finish college and then, if he wants to, play poker professionally - which he will be able to do with far more comfort, knowing that if it doesn't work out or if he loses his desire to play poker, he can just go out and find himself a job.

Honestly, your advice seems to be completely driven by your own bitterness at your perceived lack of opportunity. I work in government and I see people like you all the time - people who just check in and check out - they say things like "well, its another day of pensionable service" - I just want to smack them.

I happen to love my job. Sure, there are days when I would rather be doing something else, but on the whole, I find it to be a stimulating and interesting way to spend my day. All of my close friends are in similar situations and, unlike you, we are all moving ourselves up the corporate ladder by focusing on our goals and maintaining our ambitions.

Here is a good rule of thumb for the original poster - and anyone else:

"Never take advice on life from someone who hates theirs"

[Indiana]

Man u are soooo quick to rush to judgement on me. So you love your job eh? Maybe u are more easily amused than I am or maybe its just because you work in an unrealistic environment called the government.

Indy

[ QUOTE ]
Man u are soooo quick to rush to judgement on me. So you love your job eh? Maybe u are more easily amused than I am or maybe its just because you work in an unrealistic environment called the government.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

HA!

The ironing is delicious.

[Python49]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP except i'm not really tearing myself apart over the effects it's having on my social life due to th simple fact that my freshman year of college all I did was go out, meet people, drink, party, hook up with girls, blah blah blah and that gets old really fast. I feel like playing poker is more productive in my free time than sitting around with friends playing madden all day, or halo, that's just a waste of time. I feel as though I already have seen what i'm missing out on and frankly i'm not impressed. Right now I am focusing on 2 things... making as much money as I can before I no longer have expenses and am being taken care of through academic scholarship... and getting the best grades I can. You have to weigh what's important to you... if you feel that partying with your friends every weekend is more beneficial than making money then that's your interpretation. Personally I feel as though poker is much more productive since it's like a job in one regard but also something I enjoy.

I'm just focusing on making some money now before I graduate, majoring in business/finance/investing... and then using the money i've saved up from poker to start my own business and do some serious investing. You need money to make money and I feel that poker is just there to finance whatever business endeavors I chose to take up upon graduation. I'm not trying to go pro, i'm just trying to make money so that I can use that to invest.. since this is my major and what I want to do when I graduate.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP except i'm not really tearing myself apart over the effects it's having on my social life due to th simple fact that my freshman year of college all I did was go out, meet people, drink, party, hook up with girls, blah blah blah and that gets old really fast. I feel like playing poker is more productive in my free time than sitting around with friends playing madden all day, or halo, that's just a waste of time. I feel as though I already have seen what i'm missing out on and frankly i'm not impressed. Right now I am focusing on 2 things... making as much money as I can before I no longer have expenses and am being taken care of through academic scholarship... and getting the best grades I can. You have to weigh what's important to you... if you feel that partying with your friends every weekend is more beneficial than making money then that's your interpretation. Personally I feel as though poker is much more productive since it's like a job in one regard but also something I enjoy.

I'm just focusing on making some money now before I graduate, majoring in business/finance/investing... and then using the money i've saved up from poker to start my own business and do some serious investing. You need money to make money and I feel that poker is just there to finance whatever business endeavors I chose to take up upon graduation. I'm not trying to go pro, i'm just trying to make money so that I can use that to invest.. since this is my major and what I want to do when I graduate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for showing the OP what a reasonable person should do in his situation.

Congrats on your smart thinking.

[tommo]

this does sound like good advice. I'm cutting down on my courseload now because I've basically finished my math major and just have to finish my physics major. Hoping I can get back to straight As while playing poker. I've already started up a business or two in the past (almost got a big contract with all the schools in my county but they backed out last second).

So yeah goals for the year:
1. take less classes --> get straight As
2. continue playing poker --> clear 200k bankroll by end of year
3. continue thinking of business ideas.

By the way, I have a forum for college students interested in starting businesses. If you're interested in posting there give me a pm.

[Dave H.]

If you honestly believe you're addicted, then I think you should try to get help to quit. If you do NOT think you're addicted, then I would play part time and balance your life more. The $ will provide you with options, but until you find purpose in your life, all the $ and all the options won't do very much to make you happy. I believe that, with more balance, you're more likely to find your purpose.

[tommo]

I honestly believe I'm addicted. However, I make a lot of money while being addicted and still manage to get decent grades/stay in good shape/have some friends. albeit some of these are somewhat forfeited. I have made it my goal to cut the amount of poker I play and get better grades but I don't think stopping entirely is the right way to go.

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly believe I'm addicted. However, I make a lot of money while being addicted and still manage to get decent grades/stay in good shape/have some friends. albeit some of these are somewhat forfeited. I have made it my goal to cut the amount of poker I play and get better grades but I don't think stopping entirely is the right way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure how to respond to this, since it is very much the typical response of an addict.

I think you need to be really careful how you manage your poker playing. One idea to consider is to take the alcoholics 30 day challenge - don't play any poker for 30 days and see how you feel. If you cannot manage to do this, then it indicates that you may be in dangerous territory.

You seem like a really bright and intelligent guy. Don't let an addiction rule your life. You have to take control of your actions and manage your behaviors.

Good luck.

[Felipe]

good thread.
really!

bump.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
I advise you you're an idiot. This guy's academic and social life is declining because he has an unhealthy preocupation with gambling. The answer isn't become a professional gambler any more than telling an alcoholic he should become a professional drinker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can become a professional drinker? Why didnt anyone tell me sooner!

Greg

[USGrant]

GPA and internships don't mean too much if you're planning on starting up your own business, and 200K in seed money is a lot more important. If you can earn that much money playing poker over the next year, don't sweat four tenths of a point on your GPA and internships... the addiction question is another story. If you go corporate or start up your own business and still are obsessed with the game, then it's counseling time.

[ QUOTE ]
GPA and internships don't mean too much if you're planning on starting up your own business, and 200K in seed money is a lot more important. If you can earn that much money playing poker over the next year, don't sweat four tenths of a point on your GPA and internships... the addiction question is another story. If you go corporate or start up your own business and still are obsessed with the game, then it's counseling time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to disagree with this sentiment. One of the biggest advantages a person will get from graduating university is an instant alumni network. Those alumni will likely be impressed by a high GPA obtained at their Alma Mater. As a recent graduate looking to start a business, that kind of achievement may make a huge difference.

[sandsmarc]

I would take Indiana's advice. (Provided that you are really winning like you say you are - we all know gamblers are tremendous at prevarication and and self-delusion).

We are in the Golden Age of Poker. The fish are teeming and the cost of playing is low. It will not always be like this. The fish supply WILL dry up to a large degree. The cost of internet poker WILL go up, or even worse, the government might figure out a way to shut it down. If you can clear a few hundred thousand or a few million playing now, it is best to forego college during this limited opportunity. Sock away the bucks, buy a house, provide for retirement, etc. Then return to college later - it will always be there.

-Marc

[Indiana]

Listen to sandsmarc, he is wise. However, I do think that poker in vegas will always be fishy and I think that we have at least 10 yrs before we see any fading of this game. Ultimately, you have to decide what u wanna do with your poker game. Do you wanna be great, or just play as a hobby? Personally, I wanna be great. And the only way to be great is to make it your #1 priority. You will not get bored with this game if you continually make it your goal to play at a higher level. You should not be content until you are sitting in the big game at the Bellagio taking money from Barry G.

Indy

If poker has lost its fun and become a chore mabye try doing some other things and cutting back on your hours. Mabye 3 hours a day instead of 8 would be good. If you're a physics and math major, have you ever considered pursuing a career in education??? You could teach K-12, pretty nice job, nice benefits, and u can play poker in your spare time.

[pokerrookie]

[ QUOTE ]
and I average about $32-$4k a week.

[/ QUOTE ]


Play for 52 more weeks, invest and retire.

34,000*52 about 1.8 million Surely you can live off that.

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]

i'm thinking it may be time to visit a counsellor or someone at your school to get soem good advice on this. i'm sure there is a service for students at your school that is also free.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is GOOD advice!

[autobet]

[ QUOTE ]
I advise you you're an idiot. This guy's academic and social life is declining because he has an unhealthy preocupation with gambling. The answer isn't become a professional gambler any more than telling an alcoholic he should become a professional drinker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Find something you enjoy doing for fun and for work.

Play less poker. First take a break. When you come back to playing, you might find you enjoy it if you play for a few hours a few days a week.

[JonPKibble]

[ QUOTE ]
GPA and internships don't mean too much if you're planning on starting up your own business, and 200K in seed money is a lot more important. If you can earn that much money playing poker over the next year, don't sweat four tenths of a point on your GPA and internships... the addiction question is another story. If you go corporate or start up your own business and still are obsessed with the game, then it's counseling time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, everyone has a college degree these days, getting one won't guarantee you anything. If you own your own business nobody cares what college you went to. I am self employed and play poker part time, while I am not a professional poker player (I play very low stakes) it is fun being able to play it recreationally while enjoying cashflow from my business.

Now if your goal is to be a professional poker player, having a business is a great thing because it's a financial cushion. When you have more than one income stream it will ease the pain out of your losing streaks. However, that doesn't mean you need a degree and a job to be successful.

There are millions of people out there fighting for jobs right now, and only a handful creating new jobs. Which would you rather be?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
my freshman year of college all I did was go out, meet people, drink, party, hook up with girls, blah blah blah and that gets old really fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

This proves that youth is wasted on the young.

[Python49]

I tip my hat to anyone who can do that every day of the night except on sunday's for over 5 month's and not get tired of it.... I know I got sick of it.

[4_2_it]

Come see me when you are 40. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[PairTheBoard]

I think you're just bragging and trying to make me envious.

It worked.

PairTheBoard

[Myst]

Perhaps money is not the be all, end all answer to life, no?

Reevaluate your values and what is truly important in your life. Then base all your decisions off that lifeplan.

[cdxx]

take a semester off. spend it traveling. don't touch a computer.

[lemonPeel]

Hey! I just got a programming job, its in a cubicle and its pretty boring. But, its very stable (income every month) and did i mention its stable? Yes, stability is very nice. After work everyday, I drive to the card room near my house and i work my "2nd" job, which isnt quite as stable, but seems to make me alot more money then my first one. I finished my degree about 2 years ago and would recommend you do as I well. Poker is going to be here forever and ever, but the chance to get a degree and the opportunities it affords you does not. Do finish what you start knowing that poker is always going to be there waiting for you, should you ever want to take it. Yes, that is my advice for you. And regarding the addiction... whats the big deal? You win at it, you prolly got highly developed skills for it so even if its an addiction alot of good is coming from it. But if you were losing your rent money, doing poorly in school cuz of it, then yea, you'd prolly have a problem, but your gpa still is good, you're winning money, so whats the problem?

[giddyup]

I graduated from a university this last spring and am now playing poker as my only source of income. It's better money than any other job i could realistically get right now, but i'm on the other end of it - i don't play nearly enough. I only play enough to make about 5-6k a month. My social schedule pretty much determines my day and I play poker when I have nothing planned. So far I enjoy it quite a bit. I plan to travel a lot this year - which brings me to my advice for you. I would start finding things you are interested in and enjoy them. Travel, eat good food, meet new people, read more, and figure out what you're passionate about (hell, take up fly-fishing) and play poker when you have time. I'm very grateful to have this type of freedom at such a young age - and with such independence. I don't know what I want to do either - but i don't mind having fun shopping around for it for the next 5-10 years either. Enjoy this time - and don't get too hung up on hoarding money - nothing sours life more than an ambition such as this.

[Prelude008]

Hey Tommo,

Here's my 2 cents. I would encourage you to finsih school. It seems like you are almost there since you said you finished classes in your major. You also mentioned cutting back on classes. I would also encourage this if you would also still be full time. When I went to school (qtr system both 12 and 16 units were considered full time).
Keep playing poker, save up, and start a business if that's what you want or use the money to invest, travel, etc. when you graduate. If you grades keep sliding though, then you should reevaluate.

[mockingbird]

I read your post and all 40 of the replies. I'm not sure I have much to add.

It just made me wonder about what addiction actually is. If someone, like you, makes what amounts to loads of money for a young guy, and is meeting his other obligations, like a 3.4 gpa, then is it really a problem?

You said you socialize less but didnt really say what that means. Are you just more selective about whom you spend your time with ( a good thing ) or are you a hermit ( a bad thing )? Do you still see and stay in touch with your family if that is something you value?

I seem to have a strong sort of knee jerk reaction to reading a post from a young guy saying he may drop out of school to go pro. My reaction is: Dont Do It! I'm not sure why I feel so strongly about this.

Some reasons to stay in school:

1)You stay in touch with a big group of your peers.

2)It is more likely that you will meet the girl, guy of your dreams in school than at home on-line or in a casino.

3)As good a poker player as you may be, there are still life lessons you have not learned and I think college is a good place to learn some of those. ( I know most 21 year olds dont think they have life lessons to learn. )

4)You get a degree which will accord you at least some respect in this status conscious world. It may be important at some point.

5)You will have the self-respect of completing an important, long and demanding task which you started. ( I think this is even more important if you are close to finishing already. )

6)When and if you ever want to go back to school you can do it as a grad student. ( And you don't have to stay with the same field either. ) I would think going back at the age of 28 or whatever to finish that last year could be a little bit depressing.

7)Poker is a spiritual dead end. You confirm this in your post when you said you feel empty and unfulfilled at the end of a day of poker. School may, may, show you some avenues that are more fulfilling even if you only pursue them part time.

8)Not all careers other than poker are life sentences to a max security institute. Just like people have to apply themselves to improving their poker game, plugging leaks, building a BR, finding the games they are best at, table selection, blah blah, a career has to be worked at over time. You didnt start winning big your first poker hand and you first job may not be your life's destiny, it has to be improved on and worked at over time. Proactively, just like poker.

As concerning your "gambling addiction" it seems to me that most people will go to great lenths to deny an addiction. So if you are already calling yourself an addict at this point, there is probobly trouble ahead. I really can't pinpoint what type of trouble exactly but just very serious and negative consequences. You sound like you are going to continue to play and I cant blame you with that win rate. Please just remember, if you are truly an addict, things could turn sour for you. If they do, get help right away.

Best of Luck

( Let us know what you decide and how things turn out )