Top Set in Unraised Pot

[donkey]

2/4 NL full table

I have 400, villain has me covered. He seems solid.

I limp UTG with 99. 2 limpers behind me. Villain completes in SB.

(pot size: 20) Flop is 975 with 2 hearts. Villain leads for 20. I call (?!?). Everyone else folds.

(pot size: 60) Turn is an offsuit deuce. Villain leads for 40. I raise to 160. Villain minraises to 280.

Minraises make my head spin. what do I do?!?

[redtrain]

ez push (duh). Also, i would have raised the flop if he's capable of bluffing with a draw.

[maranello11]

If you hate money fold, otherwise go all-in

[Leptyne]

Four players see a limped pot and you are second to act with top set. The flop contains a made straight and a flush draw and you're going to give the two players behind you another card for $20?. This is the kind of play that snowballs, i.e. when you call the two players behind are encouraged to draw because of their increased odds. I think this a hand that demands protection and a pot sized raise to $80 would have been appropriate. In this case it would be $60 back to the SB and you play poker.

This is not a good flop for you and you want to keep in mind Brunson's "never lose your stack in an un-raised pot". I think a small minraise would have been better.

So what's your image? Does SB put you on a steal, a set, or a semi-bluff draw?

I really have a hard time putting SB on a made straight. The 2/3 pot lead looks weak with a flush draw on the board. I think you have to push.

Whatever you do, take Gomberg's advice and note what the post-flop minraise means to this player.

[Shaun]

He almost certainly has 6-8, and now you are getting just over 4-1 to call. You're stuck in this pot. If you call the 120 more, you have 220 left and the pot is 500, so I think you can call and hope to fill up on the river. I really don't see how you could fold because you are getting over 4-1 already and probably get paid on the end if you fill. On the other hand, if you call and miss it will be tough to fold your last 220 with over 700 staring you in the face.

You can't fold, and I don't think pushing is good either. See the river and suck out. If the board doesn't pair "fold" but I'm sure I'd donk off my last 220 anyway in reality. I hope it worked out.

[Shaun]

[ QUOTE ]

I really have a hard time putting SB on a made straight. The 2/3 pot lead looks weak with a flush draw on the board. I think you have to push.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably the idea. What hands (poster's holdings) cold-call this flop? Betting 2/3 pot begs to be raised. Think of all the hands poster will take a stab on the turn with. Maybe an overpair. Maybe a pair and nut flush draw. Maybe two pair or a set. The thing is, poster can only have so many hands to cold-call this flop, and many of them will raise this weak turn bet.

If the SB is a thinking player he knows this and may be enticing a raise. Of course, he could be doing this with 97, 55, 77, or a lot of other hands that the second nuts beats, so, yeah, I guess pushing is the way to go, but I'm just saying a 40$ turn bet doesn't mean 99 is easily ahead here neccessarily.

I suppose getting 4-1 and getting 2.8-1 on the river even if you don't fill up, pushing is the best play, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the nuts here.

As for raising big on the flop, you shut-out a lot of hands that you want action from with top set. With a hand like this I think you're willing to tempt people in the pot because you have so much potential. Smooth calling the flop might entice a player behind to raise a weaker hand and you could end up playing a huge pot with the best of it.

Anyway this is an interesting hand, I'm anxious to see what happened.

[JoeC]

This is a must-raise flop. Any other mistakes you made on the hand come back to that.

I count 13 turn cards that make you sick to your stomach... How do you play the turn when one of these 13 scare cards hits, and you aren't getting odds to draw to your boat? A good player will make you fold the best hand here too often, so don't set yourself up to get into this situation.

Sets, on scary boards in multiway pots, should essentially never be slowplayed in a game as small as 2/4NL. I don't know the thinking behind play at higher levels, but I've played a lot of hands at this level, and I can tell you that this is an unnecessarily tricky play.

Given the circumstances, I guess the turn play is fine. Call the minraise. River plays itself unless a read indicates that trip 9s might be good.

[hukilai]

Tough spot, however, your stack is not big enough to be worried too much. Yes, it can be straight, but also lower set or even two pairs. Push.

[MTBlue]

Geez does the villain have to have the nuts? You've got a every other hand he could be doing with dominated. I'm willing to be on the wrong end of a 3.4 to 1 periodically if all his other possible holdings I dominate. Btw raise this flop if the villain does have the nuts and you get it all-in on the flop you're only losing $133 compared to $220ish on the turn.

[kagame]

stop being a goddamn nit

[radioheadfan]

[ QUOTE ]
2/4 NL full table

I have 400, villain has me covered. He seems solid.

I limp UTG with 99. 2 limpers behind me. Villain completes in SB.

(pot size: 20) Flop is 975 with 2 hearts. Villain leads for 20. I call (?!?). Everyone else folds.

(pot size: 60) Turn is an offsuit deuce. Villain leads for 40. I raise to 160. Villain minraises to 280.

Minraises make my head spin. what do I do?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

Laughable that people post this kind of garbage.

Push it all in. Expect to get called. Expect to win.

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]

This is not a good flop for you and you want to keep in mind Brunson's "never lose your stack in an un-raised pot".

[/ QUOTE ]
So anything other than a 99x flop for 99 is bad? I mean even a 928r has a draw on it.
This a great flop! you should be foaming at the mouth to get ur stack in.

[kagame]

i think he meant not a good flop to let others draw for cheap

just bad phrasing

[Leptyne]

There are times that you want others to see the turn in the hopes that they will improve their hand so you can extract more money. I see this flop as being the kind where the next card could beat you. You can takes your chances if you pays your money.

[etizzle]

i hate tough beat posts, they are worse then bad beat posts because they are disguised better.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]

This is not a good flop for you and you want to keep in mind Brunson's "never lose your stack in an un-raised pot". I think a small minraise would have been better.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll bet even Brunson's gone broke with top set in an unraised pot. I bet Brunson wouldn't even think twice about it if he only had 100 blinds in front of him when the hand started. The last thing I am worrying about here is going broke. This is often going to be 55, 77, 97, 95 and occasionally even AA or a freak A9/22. There is no reason to put this guy smack on 68.

SpaceAce

[Rococo]

[ QUOTE ]
River plays itself unless a read indicates that trip 9s might be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

River plays itself only because all your money should be going in the middle on the river if you made a mistake and failed to get it in before then. Looking for a fold here is beyond insane.

[Shaun]

so what happened?

[donkey]

I called his turn raise. He pushed a blank river. I talked myself into calling even though I knew I was beat. He tabled 68 and then called me a donkey for getting stacked in an unraised pot.

[AdamBragar]

Sometimes you get stacked because you've got a really good hand (2nd nuts in this case) and someone has a better hand. You've still got to get your money in, in these positions. Too high a chance of other hands.

If you won this hand set over set, would you have posted it?

[Sadat X]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a must-raise flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[RikaKazak]

What do you gain by calling flop bet? Raise the flop man, so many scare cards to kill your action if he has 2 pair. RAISE FLOP, get it all in there is fine, even if he has str8 you got outs, and you might be vs. 2 pair, or be vs. smaller set, RAISE FLOP!!!!

[RikaKazak]

There is nothing wrong with losing a stack in an unraised pot, so many hands you crush, and only one you are an average dog to

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
2/4 NL full table

I have 400, villain has me covered. He seems solid.

I limp UTG with 99. 2 limpers behind me. Villain completes in SB.

(pot size: 20) Flop is 975 with 2 hearts. Villain leads for 20. I call (?!?). Everyone else folds.

(pot size: 60) Turn is an offsuit deuce. Villain leads for 40. I raise to 160. Villain minraises to 280.

Minraises make my head spin. what do I do?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call. Then call any river bet. Also, raise the flop-this is a scary board to be slowplaying with players behind you.

[Shaun]

Bad break man. The unraised pot thing applies to deep stack games like Brunson used to play, not 400 max. I still think you played the hand fine. The call on the flop is not bad at all. There are reasons you just call here some of the time despite what people are saying.

[amoeba]

raise the flop because lots of cards either kill your action or out draws you.

also, because you have top set, top pair is less likely thus there really isn't any reason to slowplay. if he has bottom two he'll call the raise.

[GimmeDaWatch]

[ QUOTE ]
I called his turn raise. He pushed a blank river. I talked myself into calling even though I knew I was beat. He tabled 68 and then called me a donkey for getting stacked in an unraised pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite the gentleman. Honestly, though, I don't know who gets away from this hand.

not many are getting away from this hand. tough break