Proof that I need a long break?

[TheWorstPlayer]

BB is 66/8/3AF retard. MP is 19/3 but a little too loose postflop. I had no plan for this hand. I suck at poker, apparently.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP ($157.75)
CO ($116.35)
Button ($122.55)
TWP ($99.05)
BB ($118.50)
UTG ($101.85)

Preflop: TWP is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. TWP posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">TWP (poster) raises to $2.5</font>, BB calls $2, MP calls $2.

Flop: ($9) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TWP bets $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $16</font>, MP calls $16, TWP calls $8.

Turn: ($57) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
TWP checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $30</font>, TWP calls $30, BB calls $30.

River: ($147) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
TWP pushes.

[Lady Dont Tekno]

I'm just starting to get into NL but I'm pretty sure that's a bad flop for you and an even worse turn. I'd fold the turn.

LDT

[passion]

I agree about taking a break - and play under a different account or screen name when you return.

Putting in a big raise PF might solve a lot of problem in this hand. First, it may weed out some crappy hands that have the capability to bust you (T7 for instance). Secondly, it lets everyone know that your very serious about your holding. This makes it less likely that they will try to make a stand with something like J9 or J8 on the flop.

Given the way you played the hand I think you have to give the guy credit for something good and fold to the turn bet.

Passion

[amoeba]

hey Dov,

you want to trade hand histories again?

I think last time was pretty helpful for me. I don't know if you feel the same.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to give the guy credit for something good and fold to the turn bet.


[/ QUOTE ]
Which one is 'the guy'?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yeah that couldbe good. I think I know where my biggest leak is (perma-tilt=bluffing calling stations) but there easily could be many more that I am not aware of. Send me some and I'll send you some.

[passion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to give the guy credit for something good and fold to the turn bet.


[/ QUOTE ]
Which one is 'the guy'?

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have said guy(s). The fact that you are up agaist two players make the turn into a bigger fold situation.

Passion

[TheWorstPlayer]

What do you think are hand ranges for each?

[Voltron87]

twp this is awful


between the flop and turn you found nowhere to fold?

[BZ_Zorro]

Tilt is #1 reason that decent players like yourself don't end the year way up. I battled it for a while too.

I don't know what you're thinking but your recent posts have been played terribly. You're not playing 10/20. Get your money in when you're probably ahead and leave it out when you're probably behind or have no idea. It's easy.

So take a break. Poker really doesn't matter that much anyway. Even a day can do wonders, a week, even better.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Umm...obviously not? What are your hand ranges for each opponent here?

[wtfsvi]

Why did you raise so small preflop?

I'm sorry to hear about your bad run. It feels like they will never end when you're in the middle of them, but suddenly they just do.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Because I'm an idiot and part of my bad run has been not getting action on my premium pairs. Obviously, I play bad. Don't look at my recent posts for 'how to play'.

[passion]

I'm not going to treat these guys separately in speculating about what their holdings might be because I don't think there is any reason to. From you perspective you might as well treat them as one super player. They both have you covered so there are no side pot considerations from your point of view.

At a minimum I would speculate that your looking at JQ and a draw (like J8). Other probable hands include JT, T7, J8, or J9, all of which have you destroyed by the turn.

Passion

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Umm...obviously not? What are your hand ranges for each opponent here?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. what are you doing raising to 2.5 BB after a limper?

2. on the flop, you bet (this is fine), got minraised, and that got called. you could have folded on the flop, and then the turn when someone fires big at the pot again with someone else left to act, you dont fold.

3. one pair, even if its the special one, is worthless here on that board multiway.




take 10 days off, don't play poker, don't read 2p2, go excercise, find something else. i always excercise when im on tilt, it really helps.

[wtfsvi]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
Because I'm an idiot

[/ QUOTE ] So very far from true.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
Don't look at my recent posts for 'how to play'.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not. I was just pointing out something that seemed, really easy to fix. (Not bluffing calling stations = hard, raising proper amounts preflop = easy. For me at least.)

[djoyce003]

wow....misplayed on every street.

Your preflop raise has to be at least $5 with a limper. You bet the flop got raised, that got cold called, then you called....I really hate this call after a bet/raise/call to you. I think you are behind at least one of these opponents, and I strongly suspect you are behind both of them. Fold the turn, you shouldn't be in the river, but that's a fold too.

edit: On a side note, your last few hand posts are played like a guy who knows he's going to lose the hand but just can't seem to let it go and can't find it in himself to raise when he knows he's ahead....they are kind of like lost hands where you are playing just like the loose passive fish we make our money on. I really think you should take a week or 3 off, and do anything but poker. Reading books on it is ok, watching it on TV is ok, but do not play. I'd probably not log on to 2+2 during the meantime either. You need to refocus and come back in with a fresh perspective. I did this a while back after a horrendous downturn at 5/10 limit short. I took 2 months off and came back in and started playing NL. It has been an awesome change for me, and maybe something similar would be good for you. Come back refreshed, playing NL is fine, but you need some time to decompress.

[meleader2]

your out of position. a raise to 2.5 is horrid, i'd definetly make it 4$ at least.

2/3 pot the flop, FOLD that to a minraise it's a 4 way pot including you you're beat.

[TheWorstPlayer]

OK, preflop I can definitely raise bigger but I can't see how it is SUCH a big deal whether it is 3bb or 5bb. The implied odds are there for implied odds hands either way. Maybe 5bb is a bit more profitable, but it's not like 3bb will make AA a loser here.

Postflop, however, I might have turned it into a huge loser. But I can't believe the lack of hand reading in a lot of these posts. If MP doesn't have a flush draw most of the time here, I'm amazed. And BB can have one pair a lot of the time. Or a draw. It HAS to be too weak to fold to a minraise here. And once BB checks the turn, I think there is about a zero percent chance that he has me beat. He has top pair here 99% of the time at least. So if I'm beat, I am pretty sure that it is by a set from MP. That's the only thing that makes sense given the flop action. What besides a set and a flush draw cold call the flop raise? And a set is going to re-raise a fair amount of the time so you have to discount it a bit.

Have I gone completely mad, or does this make sense?

[Rosie5]

I love 2 + 2 posters, they're almost as brutally honest as your name is

[ QUOTE ]
OK, preflop I can definitely raise bigger but I can't see how it is SUCH a big deal whether it is 3bb or 5bb. The implied odds are there for implied odds hands either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

because if you have 100$ infront and it costs me a quarter to draw to an open end straight draw vs costing me 10$ I might reconsider whether the bet to me is pot sized or not

Pot odds isn't the only thing a person will consider when drawing, stack sizes vs the bet to me is also very important. If he can see the next card for not much and maybe bust you then he will every time. (which is exactly what happened)

I would never do 3 bb here, the person who limped infront will call with anything

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I love 2 + 2 posters, they're almost as brutally honest as your name is

[/ QUOTE ]
5K HU Freezeout? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

(I love them, too.)

Edit:
[ QUOTE ]

(which is exactly what happened)

[/ QUOTE ]
Uh...no.

[Rosie5]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love 2 + 2 posters, they're almost as brutally honest as your name is

[/ QUOTE ]
5K HU Freezeout? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

(I love them, too.)

Edit:
[ QUOTE ]

(which is exactly what happened)

[/ QUOTE ]
Uh...no.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how your only rebuttle has NOTHING to do with my advice/comments. Yeah you're a big shot because you can challenge someone you know won't play you in a 5k heads up game

How about this lets fight in real life dude? you fly out we'll fight for 1,000$.

seriously what are you doing with your life, you're in the small stakes forum challenging people to high stakes games while everyone laughs at how badly you play.

at least by responding to me your post count went up though, now you have e-respect even if you seem to be clueless /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[passion]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, preflop I can definitely raise bigger but I can't see how it is SUCH a big deal whether it is 3bb or 5bb. The implied odds are there for implied odds hands either way. Maybe 5bb is a bit more profitable, but it's not like 3bb will make AA a loser here.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the point of view of someone making a decision about getting in the pot with a junk hand (like the T7) it makes a difference. Grandted you typically want peoople calling you with junk hands but you also want to make them pay as much as possible for the privledge of a flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Postflop, however, I might have turned it into a huge loser. But I can't believe the lack of hand reading in a lot of these posts. If MP doesn't have a flush draw most of the time here, I'm amazed. And BB can have one pair a lot of the time. Or a draw. It HAS to be too weak to fold to a minraise here. And once BB checks the turn, I think there is about a zero percent chance that he has me beat. He has top pair here 99% of the time at least. So if I'm beat, I am pretty sure that it is by a set from MP. That's the only thing that makes sense given the flop action. What besides a set and a flush draw cold call the flop raise? And a set is going to re-raise a fair amount of the time so you have to discount it a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

The board makes it really hard to say what your opponents are holding in this hand. Lets suppose that MP (JT or J8) had two pair. Would he be very excited about his hand on the turn out of position relative to the pf raiser - I suspect not. Given that it is a raised pot, the flop was raised and called around, and there is the board is one card short of a st8 he would probably check. Its not clear to me that a good player here would be very excited about a set in MP.

The point is that the flop and turn are a potential conceren for all players with a made hand short of the nuts (not justs you). Additionally, someone who made a str8 on the flop or turn may just decide to slowplay (I wouldn't but people do). The combination of both of these possiblities makes it very difficult to determine whether you are way behind (being slowplayed by a str8), behind to hand that you might be able make fold (j8 for instance), or are ahead (JQ or flush and flush draw).

Passion

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love 2 + 2 posters, they're almost as brutally honest as your name is

[/ QUOTE ]
5K HU Freezeout? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

(I love them, too.)

Edit:
[ QUOTE ]

(which is exactly what happened)

[/ QUOTE ]
Uh...no.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how your only rebuttle has NOTHING to do with my advice/comments. Yeah you're a big shot because you can challenge someone you know won't play you in a 5k heads up game

How about this lets fight in real life dude? you fly out we'll fight for 1,000$.

seriously what are you doing with your life, you're in the small stakes forum challenging people to high stakes games while everyone laughs at how badly you play.

at least by responding to me your post count went up though, now you have e-respect even if you seem to be clueless /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I hope this guy is joking. I'm quite certain TWP was just kidding...I hope.

[djoyce003]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, preflop I can definitely raise bigger but I can't see how it is SUCH a big deal whether it is 3bb or 5bb. The implied odds are there for implied odds hands either way. Maybe 5bb is a bit more profitable, but it's not like 3bb will make AA a loser here.

Postflop, however, I might have turned it into a huge loser. But I can't believe the lack of hand reading in a lot of these posts. If MP doesn't have a flush draw most of the time here, I'm amazed. And BB can have one pair a lot of the time. Or a draw. It HAS to be too weak to fold to a minraise here. And once BB checks the turn, I think there is about a zero percent chance that he has me beat. He has top pair here 99% of the time at least. So if I'm beat, I am pretty sure that it is by a set from MP. That's the only thing that makes sense given the flop action. What besides a set and a flush draw cold call the flop raise? And a set is going to re-raise a fair amount of the time so you have to discount it a bit.

Have I gone completely mad, or does this make sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are way off here. Couple of points:

The difference between the 3bb preflop and the 5, is that yeah, they'll probably call the 5...but you are getting more money in the pot while you are ahead...both are ev, but the one where you get $5 from each of them preflop must be better than getting $3.

As for hand reading....MP's flat call of a bet and a raise, then a bet on the turn SCREAMS of a guy that flopped the straight. I don't think you are ahead of the BB anywhere near 99% of the time in this example either. If he had two pair, 4 to the straight on the board would make him slow down too. I would estimate you are ahead of Bb significantly less than 99% of the time...I would think its somewhere around a coin flip barring a read that the guy is over-aggro and will play a crappy top pair agressively.

[Rosie5]

he probably wasn't 'joking', he just knows he can act like a big shot here and never have to live up to any of what he says.

I'm not ACTUALLY challenging someone on the internet to a fight, I'm just making fun of him for coming to a small stakes forum and asking random people for a 5k freezout as if it'd actually happen.

I can see why he did it though, all the other posters are just crapping all over this hand and he feels the need to call someone out for a lil' 5k freezout...perfectly normal /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[NickPoker]

The hand ranges on this hand would include anything the MP or BB would limp with that hits the flop.
A10 spades, Ax of spades, J10, J8, AJ, KJ, QJ, 88, 99, 107s, J7s, KQ, 89s, or any 2 spades. Without really know the players I would guess the BB for a missed draw, and the MP for a made straight (at least a two pair).

Personally, there are not very many hands I fold from the BB here, I not going to let you steal my blind very often for that amount of a raise. I fold the complete trash hands, but I am playing most connecting or decent suited hands. From MP's perspective, if my hand is good enough to limp, it is good enough to call your 2.5 BB raise, so his range would be anything he would limp with.

I agree with you that it is not that big of mistake preflop, but post flop you need to treat the hand like you limped (almost more cautiously because they are re-raising and calling you after you raised p/f).

[passion]

Anytime someone's play is called into question one of the default responses is a HU challenge. You should know this Rosie. It is really very normal and nothing to make fun of. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Passion

[TheWorstPlayer]

Whoa, dude. I thought you were joking around when you said my name was brutally honest, but apparently you really think so. In any case, I was just joking back. Don't know if you ever read the mid/high fixed limit board (and occasionally on the no limit board too), but they are always challenging each other to freezeouts when people say that someone else sucks. I was serious about loving the posters on this board, though. But I think you should chill out a bit. I knew that this hand was very questionable, despite the fact that BB called my with J3 and MP folded what must have been a flush draw and I pulled a massive pot. That's why I posted it.

[jhall23]

[ QUOTE ]
he probably wasn't 'joking', he just knows he can act like a big shot here and never have to live up to any of what he says.

I'm not ACTUALLY challenging someone on the internet to a fight, I'm just making fun of him for coming to a small stakes forum and asking random people for a 5k freezout as if it'd actually happen.

I can see why he did it though, all the other posters are just crapping all over this hand and he feels the need to call someone out for a lil' 5k freezout...perfectly normal /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You calling him out on the HU 5K freezout challege here is akin to someone pointing out that a poster spelled 'moran' wrong.

TWP is a comedian in his spare time.

[Rosie5]

oh NOW I GET IT AHAHHAHAHAHA

/is a huge jerk /images/graemlins/grin.gif

my bad, it really seemed serious. People with a lot of posts USUALLY have a huge ego around here.. I'm just tired of it, if that was really serious it would be such a joke, you understand /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[NickPoker]

I don't blame the BB for calling you p/f necessarily, but he played it horribly post flop. This is a good example of how bad some players are. He must be one of those who thinks every p/f raise means AK.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Read my location. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif And I DO have a huge ego, but just not about poker. I know I suck. That's why I picked the name.

[directscooter]

TWP,
You are probably the poster I have learned the most from since I have started reading this board. I am still too new to give you any good advice, but when I was in a slump all the advice said move down (which I can see you did) and play ABC. A raise to $2.50 here, is not ABC, the first sign that you are a little tilty. Just play some ABC, things will turn around and you will be knocking the 400NL dead soon enough.
I am glad to see you won the hand, maybe cards are starting to heat up again.
Also, in a way I am sure some the of the newbies (like myself) will be glad you are having a tough time, maybe that way the MLHL won't steal you away too quickly!!!

[TheWorstPlayer]

Thanks for the kind words. You are right about the preflop raise being indicative of my perma-tilt. Hopefully I will be over it soon. And don't worry about my moving to MH any time soon. My view is that MH should only be for NL1K and above, so hopefully we can all discuss my 2/4 and 3/6 hands here (when I move up in due time). But I'm sure I won't be moving up to 2/4 for another couple months at the shortest in any case, so really there is nothing to worry about. And of course I'll post on here forever even if I'm posting hands there.
TWP

[Python49]

I think you're running bad but also playing differently due to the bad streak you've been. Some of the things you're doing in these hands are things I was doing a while back, which you specifically advised me not to do.