cold calling with pocket pairs...

[galahad_187]

i know the word on the street is cold calling = bad. however, im curious if its really only profitable to cold call with set hunting pairs when there are multiple callers infront of the raise. I know you have to get 8.5X the amount of money you put in preflop for it to be profitable, but how often will you not get back a 10 buck pot. (making up an example considering the currently slighty tigher .5/1 tables on party (damn that 6 max boom!))

someone open raises mp1, you have 55 in mp3 and cold call, button calls. flop is 3 bucks going int othe flop. You hit your set (woot!) flop is Ac5h10h button checks, mp1 bets, you call, button calls 4.5 bucks to the turn. turn is a blank (8s), button checks mp1 bets, you raise button folds mp1 calls. 8.5 to the turn. mp1 checks, you bet, he calls. 10.5.

Is this situation not profitable since you didn't get back 8.5+ in profit? thus i really shouldn't cold call 2 bets with lower pocket pairs without another caller (or 2, 3?) infront of me?

thanks for any input, i always cold call with pocket pairs so if i'm incorrect to do so i definatly want to change that. as i make my semi transition to limit.

-galahad

[TheKentock]

Wait, either I read this wrong or you wrote it wrong, but if the final pot is 10.5 bets, you definitely did not get 8.5 in profit. 4.5 of the 10.5 is your money, the rest is your opponents'. This is why you don't cold-call, you aren't turning the profit you imagine, and it doesn't happen enough in these situations to be +EV in the longrun.

[imported_The Vibesman]

Depends on the raiser and the table for me. If I know I can probably get it heads up, I will often three-bet with any pocket pair (at least down to fives, depending on how well i know my opponent), but if I am going to end up in a threeway pot against the BB and the original raiser, it's usually not worth it; too many overcards to dodge, I'll just fold. However, with a raiser and two callers, or two limpers and a raiser, I am more likely to coldcall and play for set value.

Much of this is "in the moment" for me.

[Dave G.]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for any input, i always cold call with pocket pairs so if i'm incorrect to do so i definatly want to change that. as i make my semi transition to limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a big leak that plagued me for a while. I took the advice of it being okay to cold call raises with small pocket pairs too literally and too far. In NL it's correct to call even moderate raises with pocket pairs because your implied odds when hitting a set are huge. In limit however, you need a few other people already in the pot with you before you can play these profitably against a raise.

If 3 players limp, and the next raises, you can cold call your small pocket pair. The 3 limpers will almost certainly call the bet back to them. If you have 3 cold callers infront of you, go ahead and call as well.

In your example though, you are the only other person in the pot so far and there's only a few people left to act (who are more likely not going to cold call). This is very unprofitable. Just fold your small pair. They are a marginal hand like any other marginal hand such as small suited connectors. They need the right conditions to play profitably, and your example does not present these conditions. Fold and wait for a better spot.

[DCWildcat]

It's ok to do, but it's very situational. 3-4 callers in front of the raiser, or 2 cold-calls after the raiser is generally good enough.

[tiltaholic]

the one by stheif (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=micro&Number=1656773&fpart =1&PHPSESSID=)

[galahad_187]

you did miss something ken towards the end i did say i did ask if the situation was not profitable (because i thought it wasn't) since i didn't get 8.5X more profit than my preflop investment.

and thanks alot tiltaholic for that link, that guys' post was awsome.

galahad

[deception5]

This is very opponent and situation dependent. If there are say 4 cold callers in front of you, you can feel pretty confident that at least 2-3 of them are willing to go too far with their hands (they don't all have hands strong enough to be coldcalling a raise with, clearly they are a little loose) and that you will make a ton postflop when you hit your set.

Also change your example to the following:

Someone raises UTG and there are 3 cold callers. You coldcall on the button and the BB comes along. You hit a set, UTG bets the 3 players call and you raise. Now you've trapped the field for 2 bets if UTG just calls and possibly more if he reraises. As the pot gets bigger people call down with long shot draws and you end up dragging a huge pot with something like 70% equity on the flop.

It is much more difficult to trap the field in your situation where the raiser is on your immediate right. I would tend not to coldcall with a small pocket pair unless there were several coldcallers already. Medium ones I would (if I didn't reraise), as there's a reasonable chance I will flop an overpair.