AQ gone too far?

[Fryguy]

Did I go too far with this hand? Where would you guys have folded? Is the turn a check/fold or bet/fold situation? Is there anyone that calls the turn?

Just ignore the river, after making the mistake of playing the turn, I wanted to show down for cheap.


Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Fryguy is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Fryguy 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Fryguy bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Fryguy bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, Fryguy calls.

River: (12.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Fryguy checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO folds, Fryguy calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Fryguy has Ac Qh (two pair, aces and queens).
MP3 has Qc Tc (straight, queen high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 14.50 BB. </font>

[thesharpie]

I'm assuming this is your second hand at the table. Preflop is questionable OOP readless, is it wrong to call here I wonder? I also lead the turn and fold once it's been raised by the preflop raiser (straight or set likely) and coldcalled by the other cat.

[BatsShadow]

grunch:

When you get raised on the turn, you have to be thinking that you are going to lose to the straight, but there is no way to know for sure. The pot is big enough, I think it's an easy call.

I think your call on the river is also good, but I don't think you would want to overcall here.

[BatsShadow]

Once again, I'm not paying enough attention to the whole hand. I missed the preflop strangeness.

Do you just call here, or fold?

[thesharpie]

I'm not saying reraising is bad, if we're on the button it's an easy 3 bet. Here we're out of position and don't have a read, a 3 bet doesn't really do much for us apart from push our edge if we have one and knock BB out of the hand. I lean towards calling. Reraise if he's likely to raise lighter when opening late. (Of course he should be but at this level I find they usually don't)

[SCfuji]

check call the turn if the co folds
check fold the turn if the co calls

i hope the co calls.

Preflop Fold - you could make it 3-bets if it was just you and MP3's steal raise to isolate him, but here you have a caller in between and you'll be out of position for the rest of the hand - easy fold for me without a read.

Flop Good.

Turn Check/fold is too weak here you might get bluffed out with the best hand and you have outs against any hand that beats you but doens't hold a T. Moreover you have 3 outs (assuming one of your opponents has a T) to a split.
I like to c/c here - you might sill have the best hand (and MP3 bets w/ KQ, AJ ... , assuming you missed the flop), you have outs against any hand without a T and you might encourage your opponent to bluff here.
If it's MP3 bets, CO c/f then you can call (getting 8.5 to 1), if it's MP3 bets, CO raises - you can fold.

River C/c getting 13.5 to 1.

[Fryguy]

This is probably a leak, but I just don't see how you can fold AQo pf here. I can agree that 3-betting OOP probably wasn't the smartest move, but is folding really better than calling here?

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop Fold - you could make it 3-bets if it was just you and MP3's steal raise to isolate him, but here you have a caller in between and you'll be out of position for the rest of the hand - easy fold for me without a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

learn to play SH like some 6-max and you'll change your tune. this is pretty poor advice. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[aces_dad]

Folding AQo in the SB for 1.5SB is way too tight.

The 3bet pf may be marginal since you're OOP but SH you'd make this play every time unless MP is a rock. Overall I think you played this hand fine. The turn is a bad card for you but you did go to showdown as cheaply as possible after that.

Ok, I thought about this once more and I agree that folding here is too tight. Since MP3 could have a wide range of stealing hands our hand still should have an edge.
But I still have some questions: what is the reason for not raising? Pokerstove says we have about 42% equity when 3 players see the flop (with typical holdings), don't we raise because we won't be able to exploit our edge since we'll be oop? Or don't we raise because of the possible cap? Do we want BB to call with marginal holdings and do not raise therefore?
Actually I'm more interested in why we make a certain play rather than what is the correct play. I'd appreciate if you could explain the reasons for this play esp. since Fryguy obviously isn't satisfied with these replies too.

Btw.: My post wasn't intended to be an advice. Since I'm quite new to poker I'm grunching every post, not to give advice but to force myself to think about poker away from the table and to compare my line with that of others. My post shows the way I would have played it (and I really would have folded pf) therefore I'm happy that you stated I'm wrong, I only want to know the exact reasons now.