56s speeding got caught - vindication? 5/10

[fimbulwinter]

Opponent (1000) is totally vanilla

i open from co with 56/images/graemlins/club.gif for 35, he calls on BB.

J/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/club.gif (70)

check, bet 70, minraise, call

7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (350)

check, (!?) check

7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (350)

check, i bet 200...


I'm lost.

fim

[thabadguy]

What do you mean by vanilla?
I think his line looks very consistent with something like JT or QJ to me, as played by a semi-decent to bad player.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean by vanilla?
I think his line looks very consistent with something like JT or QJ to me, as played by a semi-decent to bad player.

[/ QUOTE ]

those hands check the river?

fim

EDIT: nice avatar

[edge]

Checkminraises can mean a lot of different things. I like reraising the flop or betting the turn to find out what it means from this player. Betting the turn is probably better; once he checks, a J is a lot less likely and you can move a standard player off a lot of hands with a solid bet there.

[thabadguy]

Sure, i mean if he views you as a strong player, which you obviously are, then it would only be logical to expect you to take a stab at it right?
I mean, i find it terribly terrribly difficult to not try and steal a pot like this. You tell me, how often you would try to steal this pot, after given action? High % of times right?
Correct me if this reasoning is wrong.

Thanks, shes alicia witt, probably the only redhead in the world i find hot, im so [censored] jealous of michael imperioli...lol first drea de matteo, then her.

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Checkminraises can mean a lot of different things. I like reraising the flop or betting the turn to find out what it means from this player. Betting the turn is probably better; once he checks, a J is a lot less likely and you can move a standard player off a lot of hands with a solid bet there.

[/ QUOTE ]
What kinda hand can you put him on after the c-mr on th flop? On this flop i can only put him on J semi decent kicker or a horribly played fd. If he played it like this with a hand like 99-TT, kick him in the virtual nuts.

[rwperu34]

The question I keep asking myself regarding this hand is; what hand does he fold the river that he doesn't fold the turn?

44 and missed clubs?

Is this line consistent with the way a "vanilla" player plays clubs? I think he's got 55-AA more times than not, which he will gladly fold to a turn bet, but is more likely to call a river bet after you check the turn.

The only thing I worry about is the ol' double check raise with AJ which would push you off of a good draw.

[rwperu34]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, shes alicia witt, probably the only redhead in the world i find hot, im so [censored] jealous of michael imperioli...lol first drea de matteo, then her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another hot redhead is Angie Everhart. At her peak, she might have been the hottest woman EVER!

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
What kinda hand can you put him on after the c-mr on th flop? On this flop i can only put him on J semi decent kicker or a horribly played fd. If he played it like this with a hand like 99-TT, kick him in the virtual nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what "vanilla" means. If it means an unremarkable, unimaginative nit, there's no point in betting the turn. If it means a random Party player, his hand range is any two cards.

[Rococo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think his line looks very consistent with something like JT or QJ to me, as played by a semi-decent to bad player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think TBG hit it on the head here. One other thing, with two pair on board here, you are going to get called down sometimes by a naked A and lose. He doesn't have to fold often here to make it worth a bet, but my guess is that you get called down here too often to make it +EV.

[thabadguy]

Results?

[fisherman112]

anyone think this is the villain's terrible idea of playing back at fim? i mean, i wouldnt be really surprised to see 88, 99 or TT here on the river. but i dont think he'll call you, so the only thing the river bet accomplishes is getting called by a weirdly played jack.

[Yeti]

My guess at results, he called w/ QQ and you lost.

[Rococo]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone think this is the villain's terrible idea of playing back at fim? i mean, i wouldnt be really surprised to see 88, 99 or TT here on the river. but i dont think he'll call you, so the only thing the river bet accomplishes is getting called by a weirdly played jack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if he is playing back on the flop without the goods (and you may be right), I think that Villain calls here with a much wider range than you suggest, especially if fim has been speeding around. If fim reads Villain as weak, and is willing to go to the mat with his read, a move on the flop or the turn makes more sense.

FWIW, I would like fim's line a lot better if he HAD a J.

[lapoker17]

Check behind on the flop.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Check behind on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing my flopped trips should then wake up on the turn?

fim