Is this -EV for me?

[kurosh]

I know this is going to seem like a bad beat post but it's really not. I want to know how else this can work.

Live 1-2 game, 3 limpers to me in the CO with red aces. I raise to 20 and am called by 6 players. I had 220 at the beginning of the hand. Flop is 357dd, checked to me and I move in.

I've basically turned my hand face up here. I'm only going to get called by hands that beat me or huge draws that are a favorite. Is everyone that is calling PF making an +EV play, even with random hands because I will be stacked so often?

So if I know I'm going to get called by a lot of players, how do you play the aces? If I raise any more PF, I won't get any calls. If I check the flop, I risk being outdrawn.

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Live 1-2 game

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The high stakes players will probably not give you advice since your in the wrong forum

But my advice is you should bet, but not overbet the pot, maybe 2/3 pot (even though it would commit you anyway)

[kurosh]

I posted it here because the point of my post has nothing to do with the limits. It's a theoretical question on how to play big pairs when you will get that many calls.

So you're asking what should you do here if when it's your turn to act on the flop, you replaced all the players at your table with your common high stakes player and then played the hand out?

[kurosh]

What I'm asking is, how do I get out of this game situation, which is probably -EV for me?

You have a table where many people will call raises to 10x the BB. They are getting correct odds to stack me. If I raise more, they fold. It is +EV for them to call with any two cards with the odds they are getting, if I'm going to be stacked every time, no?

[etizzle]

no, its not +EV to call with any two cards. They will not flop trips or 2 pair often enough to turn a profit if they know you have aces (if you raise 10x BB). The only hands they can profitably call with preflop are pocket pairs.

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What I'm asking is, how do I get out of this game situation, which is probably -EV for me?

You have a table where many people will call raises to 10x the BB. They are getting correct odds to stack me. If I raise more, they fold. It is +EV for them to call with any two cards with the odds they are getting, if I'm going to be stacked every time, no?

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By improving your shania you should be able to make it -EV for them to call your raise

I would recomend raising 10BB's with say AA-99, AK/AQ and AJ suited, and the odd sc. Now your hand isn't as readable

But what I was hinting at before was that I don't think your opposition is good enough to worry about this to begin with, I see them going to the felt with 88-KK here and some other random hands you beat

btw I would appreciate any other's response confirming/denying my line of thought here is correct, or any other thoughts

[Shaun]

While this line is obviously dangerous, when you make this play a lot of players will put you on a hand like AKd, so you might get called by JJ or another overpair. Obviously hands that beat you are calling, but with your stack size this isn't a bad approach.

If the pot is already 120, you're pretty much going to the felt here if you make any reasonable bet, so I think this bet is fine. It doesn't matter what your hand is, if someone outflopped you here they're going to call, so whether they know you have AA or not isn't relevant. A lot of players will look for reasons to call you with worse hands than AA on this board, however, and I think that will make up for the times when you are dead to an ace or running /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs.

[evil_twin]

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I posted it here because the point of my post has nothing to do with the limits. It's a theoretical question on how to play big pairs when you will get that many calls.

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I still don't understand why you've posted in mid-high stakes.

[mikech]

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I posted it here because the point of my post has nothing to do with the limits. It's a theoretical question on how to play big pairs when you will get that many calls.

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I still don't understand why you've posted in mid-high stakes.

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our moderator should move it. while a raise to 20 might get 6 callers in many live 1-2 games, it would be quite rare for a raise to 200 to get 6 callers in a 10-20 game. so it certainly has very much to do with the limits, saying it's a "theoretical question" is a poor excuse.

[fuzzbox]

Surely if you are called by 6 players for 20, that you can easily raise 30 here and expect at least 2 of those to play ?

[MTBlue]

Small stakes forum would be a much better place for this post. I understand you want top rate advice but the ideas behind a high stakes game and a low stakes games are very different. As Shaun illustrated the move-in on the flop would be mistaken for a flush draw in high stakes game where in a low limit game it almost never would in my experience. There are some excellent posters down there that would fit your needs.

On to your post, in harrington's book he points out that the move-in with the high pocket pair is essentially a subtle semi-bluff. You could win the hand by folding your opponent/ or your pocket pair could be bigger than his pocket pair/ or you could draw out on his hand. In general I really like people who stack off with one pair hands (I make most of my money off of it) and AA certainly qualifies as that. In general there isn't a good way to play unimproved AA against a ton of callers. Honestly the easiest way to play high pockets is to try an isolate the weakest calling station at the table and then stack him if he hits the flop. Raise more preflop (you really want 1 caller not 5-8) and I think in this situation checking the flop to see what happens isn't a bad move (planning to check raise all-in if the table in general shows weakness). Moving all-in will get you toasted quite a bit against players who know you have a high pocket pair.

[kurosh]

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Surely if you are called by 6 players for 20, that you can easily raise 30 here and expect at least 2 of those to play ?

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Nope. No one will coldcall 30. Once one person calls 20, the rest start calling too because of "pot odds."

Sorry for posting it here. I was approaching it as a math problem and didn't think the small stakes forum was adequately equipped for it.

[2PAUL2]

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I was approaching it as a math problem and didn't think the small stakes forum was adequately equipped for it.

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LOL the small stakes forum is happy without you then.

Paul