Folding JJ to a minraise preflop.

[octaveshift]

LOL. Anyone seen my testicles?

***** Hand History for Game 2536818665 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14848273 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Sunday, August 14, 22:29:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 14249 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Two20Inside ( $740 )
Seat 7: erauseo ( $660 )
Seat 8: pokard ( $770 )
Seat 9: xyrophobic ( $1435 )
Seat 5: John_Galt_ ( $1060 )
Seat 2: TirePro00 ( $2255 )
Seat 4: usndiver ( $345 )
Seat 6: Chang26 ( $735 )
Trny:14848273 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to xyrophobic [ Jc Jh ]
erauseo raises [100].
pokard folds.
xyrophobic folds.

[Pasterbator]

i just puked on my keyboard.

Sincerely,
A $20+2 player thats thinks UTG had A7s.

[Newt_Buggs]

I would call

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
i just puked on my keyboard.


[/ QUOTE ]

From same tournament. Here is why I hate JJ:

***** Hand History for Game 2536877323 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14848273 Level:5 Blinds(75/150) - Sunday, August 14, 22:39:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 14249 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 8: pokard ( $725 )
Seat 9: xyrophobic ( $1960 )
Seat 5: John_Galt_ ( $830 )
Seat 2: TirePro00 ( $2475 )
Seat 4: usndiver ( $435 )
Seat 6: Chang26 ( $1575 )
Trny:14848273 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to xyrophobic [ Jh Js ]
TirePro00 folds.
usndiver raises [300].
John_Galt_ folds.
Chang26 folds.
pokard folds.
xyrophobic is all-In [1810]
usndiver is all-In [135]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2h, Kc, 9d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ad ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
usndiver shows [ As, Qs ] a pair of aces.
xyrophobic shows [ Jh, Js ] a pair of jacks.
xyrophobic wins 1525 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of jacks.
usndiver wins 945 chips from the main pot with a pair of aces.
nh

[Freudian]

I don't mind folding, if your read tells you he is trapping with a big hand.

I can see folding, calling and reraising as valid alternatives. Can't remember ever having a good enough read to fold in a case like this thoguh. Most of the time I like a reraise to 250-300 here.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
I would call

[/ QUOTE ]

I would hate calling here only to get raised behind... In the immortal words of TJ Cloutier "Reraise or fold."

I think I am scared to play JJ now that I have looked over my hand performance. It's 10th from the bottom. Ugh. WTF.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

I think I am scared to play JJ now that I have looked over my hand performance. It's 10th from the bottom. Ugh. WTF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry. It's just variance. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Myst]

Folding is inexcusable.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

Don't worry. It's just variance. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably is. 72 has been more profitable for me.

(Losing less, that is.)

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding is inexcusable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. In a 22 you can count on at least one person calling behind, and the BB calling too.

If you assume UTG has a real hand- one worthy of raising UTG... what range would you put him on? AA, KK, AKs, QQ...?

Not that it matters, but in this hand, the player next to act after I folded pushed, and was called by UTG.

[Myst]

Ok, justify your horrible play. But let me open up your eyes and tell you that UTG's range is NOT QQ+, and you shouldnt mind taking a coinflip with your chip stack vs his, not to mention the numerous times you will have him dominated.

If you dont want people limping behind, then reraise to 300. If you get pushed behind, then fold and be happy with your 1100 chips remaining.

[fluorescenthippo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would call

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting. are you hoping to flop an overpair or a set and otherwise folding? just curious how you would play this flop because i would never call here. it seems like a hand such as 99 can beat you if you call here if the flop is bad for you.

[Kinnipak]

Tell the truth...you hit the wrong button...right?

:-)

[outofstep]

Why not re-raise?

[raptor517]

rawr. shove. rawr. rawr. holla

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. Anyone seen my testicles?

***** Hand History for Game 2536818665 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14848273 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Sunday, August 14, 22:29:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 14249 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Two20Inside ( $740 )
Seat 7: erauseo ( $660 )
Seat 8: pokard ( $770 )
Seat 9: xyrophobic ( $1435 )
Seat 5: John_Galt_ ( $1060 )
Seat 2: TirePro00 ( $2255 )
Seat 4: usndiver ( $345 )
Seat 6: Chang26 ( $735 )
Trny:14848273 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to xyrophobic [ Jc Jh ]
erauseo raises [100].
pokard folds.
xyrophobic folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I push 98% of the time.

[lastchance]

That's a terrible reason to hate JJ.

[Nicok7]

Maybe such plays are why you don't earn money with JJ. If you have a feeling he is extremely storng at least pay and try to get a set. Given raiser's stack a push is much more in order IMO. And personally I might have raised preflop first.

[curtains]

I would reraise, probably allin.

[jgunnip]

I like to push here. The only person you really fear going up against is John_Gait_ but he'll have to wake up with a really hand to call you here. You hand is far enough ahead of the average 22 player's range which I would put at about 88+ A7+, suitded broadways and connectors, to make pushing ++EV and fold ---EV.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LOL. Anyone seen my testicles?

***** Hand History for Game 2536818665 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14848273 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Sunday, August 14, 22:29:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 14249 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Two20Inside ( $740 )
Seat 7: erauseo ( $660 )
Seat 8: pokard ( $770 )
Seat 9: xyrophobic ( $1435 )
Seat 5: John_Galt_ ( $1060 )
Seat 2: TirePro00 ( $2255 )
Seat 4: usndiver ( $345 )
Seat 6: Chang26 ( $735 )
Trny:14848273 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to xyrophobic [ Jc Jh ]
erauseo raises [100].
pokard folds.
xyrophobic folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I push 100% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe such plays are why you don't earn money with JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

If anything, I have been losing money by overplaying them PF.

I think this has resulted in overcorrection. Since looking over my hand data, I have tried to play JJ more cautiously.

I think another thing is that I am running into adjustment problems by bouncing between levels. I will sometimes play a 55, a 109, and a 22 consecutively, so I think I might not be playing optimally. IE- Giving 22
players the same credit I would extend to a 109 player, and the inverse.

It might make sense for me to post about 20 of my JJ hands for the forum to look at....

I know a lot of people have said they would push, but I agree with the person that said reraise, probably to something in the 250-300 range, and see what happens. If you get a raise behind you, let it go. If he just calls you, you've probably got him, play the flop. If he reraises you all-in, let it go, you've got plenty stack left.

*edit*
Posting JJ hands is a good idea. I think a lot of people, including myself, could use help in that area.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

Posting JJ hands is a good idea. I think a lot of people, including myself, could use help in that area.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3157785&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=&vc=#Post3157785

Im new to this board. This is my first ever post. But I've been trolling the site for a month or so. Alot of posters I respect suggest pushing (aka, curtains and raptor), but I think there is alot of benefit in simply calling or raising.

Disadvantage of going all-in:
1) if you go all in and and anyone but especially tirepro wakes up with a real hand, then you are a coinflip at best and probably dominated. Why risk your whole tournament to win $175 chips?

Calling:
1)Keeps the pot small with a marginal hand.
2) Allows you to get away from the hand cheaply if someone goes in behind you.
3)Allows you to use your position later for advantage, whereas a raise will more or less committ your opponent if he calls.
4)Disadvantage is that it allows other players to take a cheap flop, thus destroying your position.

Raising 250 0r 300:
1) Announces to the players behing you that you have a hand and only get involved if you got a monster. Hopefully isolates the initial raiser.
2)However, if everyone else folds and the initial raiser calls. You can expect him to make a move at the pot on the flop--possible sit n go. The problem being that a large percentage of the time there will be a higher Q,K,A on the flop.

Id call and hope that everyone behind me folds. Try and pick up a cheap pot. If it's heads up with me and the initial raiser and there are no overcards on the flop, then i'd be willing to call any bet or set him in.

GL.

[Ogre]

i would make it 250-300 almost everytime, i hate calling

[FrogMouth]

Are you trying to win this thing or just fold into the money? Push it in his face to isolate and scoop up the $175 when everyone folds. If he does call, you got the 4th best hand in the game and your probably in good shape. If you happen to loose, your still sitting on $775t and the blinds are still relitivly low. Calling is not an option, and I don't like a raise here either, last thing you want is 1 or 2 more comming along for the ride.