Live ring games vs Internet play

[Taxmanrick]

I seem to play pretty well on the net. Only play Party .50/1. I've started playing at the local casino recently and find I can't win nearly as often as I do on the net. The players seem to be worse at the casino!! I do find myself having to play 2/4 or 4/8 there and usually only have $100 to buy in. I find I start out pretty aggressive(same play as on the net) but when I start to lose, really get passive. I recently thought about abandoning the live game for a while, but realized I may be playing too high limits that I am comfortable with. Any one else have the same experience?

[DCWildcat]

Yeah, the casino game is always easier than an internet game, even at limits 5x higher.

$100 isn't even close to sufficient as a bankroll for either one of those. Hell, it's only barely sufficient as a buyin for one (2/4). You need WAY more money to play live; that might keep you more aggressive when variance is against you.

[UncleSalty]

I find the same thing, although my live experience is pretty limited. (Probably about 60 hours total.) I think part of the problem is just sample size, since I've probably only played about 2100 hands in a casino.

Also, when you're used to 2 and 3 tabling online, and the pot size is automatically calc'd for you, playing live can be a bit cumbersome mentally. I tend to get bored during slow runs of cards and having to pay attention to the pot size adds a dimension I'm not used to. Plus, there are the free drinks, and in my case, the altitude. (Blackhawk, CO is about 2K feet higher than Denver and all that smoke and thin air tends to make me a little woozy after a few hours.)

[Taxmanrick]

I was thinking that was my main problem(bankroll). I planned to build up a roll on the internet and withdraw some to use in live games but haven't done that yet. I kinda prematurely started the live games without a suffecient roll. Secondly(Uncle) you are so right. It does get cumbersome to calculate thepot odds live because of a lot of factors, including the chatter. I seem to lose concentration a lot of times because of that but at the same time don't want to seem too serious as to draw atention to myself taking the game to serious!!!

[DCWildcat]

Yeah, the pot can be a pain in the rear, but it is a good way to keep your focus on where it should be if you make sure to always know what it is (or just ask it to be counted out if it's a close call).

You've got the right attitude. Keep up the good work.

[Taxmanrick]

Thanks, sometimes we just need to know we're not the only ones out there going through these things. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Only play Party .50/1. I've started playing at the local casino recently and find I can't win nearly as often as I do on the net.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sample size has already been pointed out. So here's another factor to consider:

The rake/toke (tips) at a B&M casino eat into your profits much more than online play. So while the players are worse, you pay more for the opportunity to play against them. You also play fewer hands per hour, so your variance live compared to your variance online (over same length of time) will be greater. If you also consider the effect of multi-tabling, your live play variance goes up even more (to be correct... the online varaiance is going down).

[SavageMiser]

Practice counting the pot when you're out of a hand. Gives you something to do. I've also found it's a lot easier to do when you count in bets and not actual money figures.

[Taxmanrick]

Well, do you just stay away from live games?

[NateDog]

here's a tip for tracking the pot. for every small bet that goes in cut a chip off your stack. when you reach the turn, cut the new stack in half, and add another chip for every big bet that goes in. Need to know how many bets in the pot? count out the chip stack you've been 'playing' with.

My limited experience has taught me casino play has its own hazards. The rake is high (10 to 12 percent, plus tips), and you only see ~ 30 hands an hour. Personally, this makes it tough for me to have correct card discipline, and I find myself hanging on to hands like KK with four people in when the board comes up ace high - a mistake I'd never make online with 200 hands an hour.

I can't hate casinos too much: The players wear their tells on their sleeve for the most part, and the vast majority are awful. It's a great way to learn the game but the swings at those games are certainly harder on your bankroll than in 1/2. Casinos gave my bankroll a great start a few months ago but they could have just as easily broke me.

If you're looking to have fun reading players and socializing while you play, b & m is great. If you want to make money, stick to online unless your bankroll is big enough to play 10/20 or above.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, do you just stay away from live games?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I don't play very often because it's not as convenient. Since I'm playing for the pleasure of playing, I don't mind paying extra to sit at a live table when I have the chance. If you're playing for money (a real part of your income), playing online small stakes games is a much better way to go.

[VoraciousReader]

[ QUOTE ]
here's a tip for tracking the pot. for every small bet that goes in cut a chip off your stack. when you reach the turn, cut the new stack in half, and add another chip for every big bet that goes in. Need to know how many bets in the pot? count out the chip stack you've been 'playing' with.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is great. Makes me want to head out to Ameristar for some 3/6 Kill right now. But I have to work in the am...

Seriously, great tip. Thx.

[Taxmanrick]

Great tip!!!Thanks!!!

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]
here's a tip for tracking the pot. for every small bet that goes in cut a chip off your stack. when you reach the turn, cut the new stack in half, and add another chip for every big bet that goes in. Need to know how many bets in the pot? count out the chip stack you've been 'playing' with.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great tip. The dealer is also counting the pot to take the rake. Ask the dealer when they take a chip. If you need a quick estimate, you can see how many chips the dealer has for the rake.

sample size warning I have been on a rampage live. I have won 50-100 bets per session over 5 sessions. I had one down session. I even turned that one around with a miracle 4 of a kind versus two nut straits.

I have found live players to be really bad. They make average .5/1 players look like experts. Very weak passive.

I found I had to adjust my game quite a bit. Pre Flop raises from UTG will often take the blinds. If you can trap a few people you can build monster pots. People downstream will call 2 cold they would have mucked for one.

My advice is to change up your pre-flop play a little.

From early to mid position raise offsuite broadways. This will usually isolate a weaker player, or build a monster pot.

limp (re-raise if you get the chance) your monsters from early to mid postion.

If there are a lot of callers to you and you have a hand that plays well mulit-way, raise it. If you hit your hand, you will drag a giant pot. Since it's big to start with, people will call down drawing slim our dead.

-D

p.s. if anyone wants to come to Tulalip with me on the weekends, PM me.