Was I out of line/stupid?

[sf340flier]

Playing at the shooting star in MN the other day, 2-10 spread hold'em. On the button. 3 limpers (one was a calling station), and action to the CO. CO had semi-loose starting requirements, especially in later position, and would raise PF 50% of the time. CO raised to $6. I looked down, found A A. I re-raised $10 making it $14 to the limpers. First 2 limpers fold. The calling station thinks for a moment and pushes what looks $28 (14 $2 chips) into the pot. The dealer tells him he can only raise another $10. He then says he thought the $2 chips were $1 chips and he just wants to call, and the dealer starts moving his 7 extra chips back to his stack.

Now I am in a dilema. First question, once he committed his chips (and it was clear he didn't know what the chip colors meant -- he was very new to the game), am I an a**hole for trying to force him to commit his chips?

Second question, if I try to force the 7 chips back into the pot, the semi-loose original raiser would know I hold a monster (and probably fold). Should I accept the situation and hopefully the original raiser will call (+EV?).

I thought for a second, and told the dealer that those chips should be moved back into the pot. The whole table looked at me like I was an a**hole (see first question). The dealer said no. I called a room manager over, and he sided with the dealer.

Of course, the original raiser folded.

Did I screw this whole thing up?

[AKQJ10]

Ethically, opinions may differ. I would say what you did was ethically justifiable. I would also assume that by a strict interpretation of the rules you're in the right, because the chips hit the pot. The rules at that room may give the floor latitude to overrule in the best interest of the game, and if so then I believe this floor was right to do so.

From a dollar EV standpoint, it's highly dubious. First of all, you didn't get the money in the pot, so the probability of getting an extra $14 in the pot is less than 100%. So the EV of standing your ground is less than $14, although I can't say how much less. Maybe the floor siding with the dealer was a 20:1 longshot but whatever it was, it hit, so your payoff turned out to be $0.00.

On the other hand, now you've either driven off calling station or caused him to play more deliberately against you. You've also made enemies with the rest of the table and likely caused them to play better. That's probably gotta be worth at least $14 unless you were planning to leave soon anyway and don't ever plan to play with the same clientele.

So ethics and poker rules are probably on your side (IMO), but common sense would say that you made a -EV move. And that's even assuming you derive zero utility from getting along with people and having a fun, harmonious time.

[The Ocho]

Looks and sounds like the guy made an honest mistake. Give him a break. Don't be nitty.

I never argue with the dealer unless she miscalls a hand. If I'm in doubt of the legitimacy of a play, I never suggest the correct action; I simply ask the dealer what my current options are. There are several reasons for this:
1. In the event that I get an extra bet into the pot when I have a good hand, it is a small advantage in a single pot, and doesn't happen enough in the long run to have a significant effect;
2. Most players make honest mistakes rather than shooting angles;
3. Slowing down the game and calling the floor may cause me to miss out on two or more hands in this session that I otherwise would have been able to play;
4. I really can't afford to let any player at the table know that I know anything about the rules of the game, as this would make it very clear that I've seen enough of this situation to know the correct ruling.

[Randy_Refeld]

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First question, once he committed his chips (and it was clear he didn't know what the chip colors meant -- he was very new to the game),

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A player is cound by his clear intent. Since you say it was clear he wanted to call, it is a call.

[DesertCat]

Yes you were out of line ---

--- and don't call me "stupid".

[CrashPat]

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Did I screw this whole thing up?

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Yes. 2 dollar chips confuse new players and if there was not action behind him most places will allow his intended action to stand at low limits. What you managed to do was piss off the table and slow the game down for no real reason.

[TheCroShow]

omg who is the noob in this situation?

[shant]

YSSCKY

YES

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Well you're using lots of buzzwords like "+EV" but you forgot how MINUS EV it is to piss off the fish, nay the whole table. Shut your yap and let the guy just call already, you'll make it all back, plus more later if you just keep everyone happy. Calling the floor was insane, now they all hate you, and will play tighter, harder and better against you in the future.

EV can be a lot like implied odds, you can get a lot more of it in the future if you are willing to take a slightly short price right now.

Besides, if he clearly intended to call, it's a call.

al

[djoyce003]

he made a mistake, you took a semi-angle shoot with cards to come and announced you had AA basically, then won the minimum..i wouldn't punish someone for an obvious honest mistake...you yourself said he obviously didn't know what he was doing. You should have just let there be some mystery about your hand and won some bets on additional streets.

[Mason Hellmuth]

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YSSCKY

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I would say you were ok to ASK the dealer whether those chips belong in the pot - but once the dealer says "no", then calling the floor was a HUGE mistake.