folding kk pre flop?

I normally don't mind getting all my money in preflop with kk at the party nl$50, however the way the action went i was fairly sure of villain having aces. we both have roughly~50 in front of us. the hand converter isn't working for me so sorry for the winged hand description.

I'm dealt two red kings UTG+ 1
preflop:
UTG call .5 ,hero raises to 2,4 folds, villain raises to 4.2, Utg calls, hero raises to 11, villain raises to 30, UTG folds, hero???

now from what i've seen, hero is fairly untricky standard party 50nl player. Is this a standard push or fold for you guys? Should i be laying down kings pre at this level?

Push. Never lay down Kings preflop, especially at this level. Never.

[amoeba]

its very read dependent. most posters here probably wouldn't lay it down but if you got a read you got a read.

having said that, a technique used in higher limit games is just calling his reraise to 4 and try to play post flop poker. this way, you still lose to AA but you get more out of QQ/JJ whereas they might have folded to your reraise to 11 or 4 bet to possibly trick you out of best hand.

[stu-unger]

[ QUOTE ]
its very read dependent. most posters here probably wouldn't lay it down but if you got a read you got a read.

having said that, a technique used in higher limit games is just calling his reraise to 4 and try to play post flop poker. this way, you still lose to AA but you get more out of QQ/JJ whereas they might have folded to your reraise to 11 or 4 bet to possibly trick you out of best hand.

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i was thinking about smooth calling his re-raise too but u do have some problems with this line. UTG is still in the mix and u r OOP.

to the OP this is a tough spot. without a read i dont lay this down, even if i know im beat. with a read i may lay it down. i think i sadly stick my stack in the middle and spike a K.

[jkkkk]

I have laid them down once (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=2752074 ).

[amoeba]

hmm, didn't see the UTG overcall. yeah then I think raise to 11 is fine.

What do you guys see as a non-maniac villains normal hand range here though, barring a great read. Most Ive rarely seen this done with ak-Aq, or even queens for that matter, and its highly unlikely that the villain holds the other blacks kings, so why is this necesarilly a push??

Do you have villians vpip and pfr #s? Unless he is known to be a solid player his range has to include AK, QQ, and possibly AQ, or even JJ, AJ, or worse. If 50NL is anything like 25NL, you see all kinds of crazy plays. Your pot odds are almost 2-1, and even if you dont include JJ in villians range, I push here.

[Ole16]

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Push. Never lay down Kings preflop, especially at this level. Never.

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[Rosie5]

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Push. Never lay down Kings preflop, especially at this level. Never.

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word.

If you want to nut peddle there's probably some omaha tables at whatever site you play on

kids these days got no gamble in them