hope you enjoy this heads up hand [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

mike l.

08-14-2005, 04:32 AM

40-80 live heads up match. this guy plays flush draws very very fast that's all im gonna say.

i have 86o on the button and open raise. he calls.

the flop is Ks4s3h. he bets, i raise, he calls.

the turn is Kc. he checks, i bet, he checkraises, i 3 bet, he calls.

river is Kd. he bets, i raise, he 3 bets, i 4 bet.

comments?

SinCityGuy

08-14-2005, 04:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't try this at home.

Xtian11

08-14-2005, 05:08 AM

Has he check raised flush draws on the turn before? Does he bluff at pots w/ missed flush draws?

With his check raise on turn and then lead out on river, I am putting him on a 4, a pocket pair 55 or higher, or the K.

My results prediction: he folds after you 4-bet :P

stripsqueez

08-14-2005, 06:39 AM

if he plays a flush draw very fast why didnt he raise more on the flop and turn ?

i wouldnt spew chips like this without an intimate read

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Fortitude

08-14-2005, 06:51 AM

Are you trying to brag about 4-betting with 8 high? There is nothing anyone on this forum is going to be able to say about this hand. If 4-betting here was the correct play, the only two people who could possibly know it was correct are you and your opponent.

cnfuzzd

08-14-2005, 07:05 AM

i assume since you are playing him that he is bad enough to 3bet the river and fold to the 4bet. nice game selection.

peace

john nickle

Nick C

08-14-2005, 07:15 AM

Jeez.

I'm glad I don't play against you, unless I have accidentally on Party.

Because most of the players I've run into who play like this are awful.

And, well, I lurk in mid-high, and I know you're not awful at all.

So, on Party, you could probably fool me for awhile and win a lot of money from me.

fyodor

08-14-2005, 11:34 AM

You seem to believe that he believes he can't win a showdown either, therefore one of you will eventually fold. Do you fold to the 5 bet or the 7 bet?

surfdoc

08-14-2005, 12:41 PM

I can't wait to hear this one.

tolbiny

08-14-2005, 12:54 PM

Brialliant! The more raises you put in the lower the % that each one has to be successfull for it to show a profit- by the time you get to 200 bets in the pot he will only have to fold >1% of the time for that raise to be +ev!

kurosh

08-14-2005, 12:56 PM

I can't figure out if you're a horrible player or you just post hands for image purposes.

Surfbullet

08-14-2005, 12:58 PM

I must confess, I have no idea what is going on in this hand - though it does look kind of like one of my absurd, multi-street bluffs that come out every once in awhile HU.

Surf

Vaftrudner

08-14-2005, 01:50 PM

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

mike l.

08-14-2005, 02:38 PM

"i wouldnt spew chips like this without an intimate read"

neither would i.

mike l.

08-14-2005, 02:39 PM

"If 4-betting here was the correct play, the only two people who could possibly know it was correct are you and your opponent."

it was the correct play but i still lost the hand. he called and showed J6s for the missed flush draw jack high.

jason_t

08-14-2005, 02:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"If 4-betting here was the correct play, the only two people who could possibly know it was correct are you and your opponent."

it was the correct play but i still lost the hand. he called and showed J6s for the missed flush draw jack high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only true fish call with Jack high.

08-14-2005, 02:52 PM

where's ellix powers when you need him? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

ike

08-14-2005, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it was the correct play but i still lost the hand. he called and showed J6s for the missed flush draw jack high.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why this makes you think your play is correct. Can you explain?

stinkypete

08-14-2005, 03:17 PM

Tyler Durden

08-14-2005, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Brialliant! The more raises you put in the lower the % that each one has to be successfull for it to show a profit- by the time you get to 200 bets in the pot he will only have to fold >1% of the time for that raise to be +ev!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. awesome.

mike l.

08-14-2005, 03:48 PM

"the play is clearly wrong if he will call with jack high."

well at the time i didnt know he was capable of calling with that. but apparently he is. dont worry, i adjusted and broke him.

Anders_G

08-14-2005, 04:10 PM

I agree with stinypete. That beeing said i think a lot of people call to the river 4-bet as he beats any PP of tens or lower. Obviously, the opponent bluffs often enough for it to be profitable /images/graemlins/smile.gif

jfresh

08-14-2005, 04:16 PM

if anyone makes it 3 bets on the river, i think they are calling a 4bet with almost anything. all that action he gave you is fishy, but J-high's a hand that has a fair amount of showdown value on a K34KK board heads up, doesn't it?

Justin A

08-14-2005, 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with stinypete. That beeing said i think a lot of people call to the river 4-bet as he beats any PP of tens or lower. Obviously, the opponent bluffs often enough for it to be profitable /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't beat any pocket pairs.

mike l.

08-14-2005, 04:25 PM

"J-high's a hand that has a fair amount of showdown value on a K34KK board heads up, doesn't it?"

i agree but i didnt figure him to be sophisticated enough to realise that.

jason_t

08-14-2005, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[I] think a lot of people call to the river 4-bet as he beats any PP of tens or lower.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Gabe

08-14-2005, 04:37 PM

standard.

NLfool

08-14-2005, 06:13 PM

I'm at a loss for words, someone like andrew prock or yourself will call me a mid-high nit but I just don't get it. At least online I could say I miss clicked 10 times but live I can't come up with an excuse.

Justin A

08-14-2005, 08:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm at a loss for words, someone like andrew prock or yourself will call me a mid-high nit but I just don't get it. At least online I could say I miss clicked 10 times but live I can't come up with an excuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're responding to Gabe calling this "standard", I think he's saying it as a joke, that it's kind of standard for mike.

Warik

08-14-2005, 08:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i hate money

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

wackjob

08-14-2005, 08:22 PM

I like it & think you are going to make a lot of money in the long term with a good read against this type of B&M maniac. I've been in a similar situation live with 3 broadways on board only to show down a pair of 3's with a 7 kicker to win when it was capped every street HU.

Warik

08-14-2005, 08:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like it & think you are going to make a lot of money in the long term with a good read against this type of B&M maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]

Were you refering to mike or his opponent?

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

wackjob

08-14-2005, 08:33 PM

To Mike. Obviously any sane player making this type of play is doing so because of a good player read.

mike l.

08-14-2005, 09:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i have no sack

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

NLfool

08-14-2005, 11:12 PM

in response to mike l. just happened to "reply" to Gabe because he posted last.

Anyways I think some of these guys are overating how well you can read someone. Minus actually seeing his cards and that he can't beat 8 high I'm not sure anyone can read people so well.

Like I said mike l. must be selling a lot of books or he has the best game selection I've seen and against such players meta game plays aren't necessary or optimal.

I'm sure he gets paid off everytime he hits a hand but this is spewing

Warik

08-15-2005, 12:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i have no sack

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh come on mike... I've seen plenty of your hands in the Mid/High Limits Forum where you take advantage of some borderline clairvoyant reads... but you have to admit that you're simply hemorrhaging chips here.

If you were value-betting ace high or a low pocket pair or something that's one thing, but you hold absolutely nothing here. What do you think he has? 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif?

Entertaining hand, though.

mike l.

08-15-2005, 03:52 PM

"but you hold absolutely nothing here."

neither did my opponent! he shouldve folded his jack high not called with it. he didnt call because he's a genius, he called because he's a donk. i had it all lined up and then he misclicked and called, except it was live. i saw it with my own eyes.

anyway glad you enjoyed the hand. even if i was dead wrong and the guy turns over QQ on the end, it felt right to make the play i made, i would do it again although maybe not against this opponent. maybe the play was bluff call and hope he mucks his hand unseen he was doing that a lot. to say this was all simple awful spewing is wrong. you need to step up the aggression heads up and sometimes take a naked read based multi street bluff way further than seems prudent.

sthief09

08-15-2005, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't figure out if you're a horrible player or you just post hands for image purposes.

[/ QUOTE ]

see it's posts like this why everyone's so happy you're on the verge of going broke

Warik

08-15-2005, 08:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"but you hold absolutely nothing here."

neither did my opponent!

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume you are 100% sure that he is bluffing.

How many bluffs do you beat?

Also, you are playing against this person presumably because he's a donk (not because he's a genius), knowing that he IS a donk, shouldn't you EXPECT him to call?

Call with what? Two random cards, right? Well... there are more random cards that beat your hand than not.

[ QUOTE ]
anyway glad you enjoyed the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hands are always fun.

whodaman

08-16-2005, 02:46 AM

do people ever really 3 bet and fold to a 4 bet on the river?

mike l.

08-16-2005, 05:37 AM

"shouldn't you EXPECT him to call? Call with what? Two random cards, right?"

no i did not expect him to call with two random cards. i did not expect him to call with J high. so you got me there. i believed at the time that he was capable of folding a busted J high draw.

kiddo

08-16-2005, 06:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing anyone on this forum is going to be able to say about this hand. If 4-betting here was the correct play, the only two people who could possibly know it was correct are you and your opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]