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View Full Version : WTF does this mean?

08-14-2005, 03:03 AM
Just started trying out the $22s on Stars. Here's something I'm not used to seeing.

This is about the 10th hand of the tourney, villain hasn't played any hand yet.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t1800)
Button (t970)
SB (t1520)
BB (t1320)
UTG (t2030)
UTG+1 (t1490)
Hero (t1800)
MP2 (t1160)
MP3 (t1410)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t20, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t1490</font>

???
ChuckNorris
08-14-2005, 03:09 AM
Doesn't look scary to me. Big pockets usually like minireraising. In the party sit'n'gos I play it's an easy all-in.
lastchance
08-14-2005, 03:14 AM
Yup. This doesn't exactly scream strength to me. I call, pretty quickly.
suited_ace
08-14-2005, 03:15 AM
You're probably looking at complete junk or a hand like AK. With the deeper stacks I think folding is the best option in this spot.
ChuckNorris
08-14-2005, 03:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You're probably looking at complete junk or a hand like AK. With the deeper stacks I think folding is the best option in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that kind of self-contradicting? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Okay, okay, I know.. You want to pass up SMALL edges. But this looks like a very significant edge to me.
lastchance
08-14-2005, 03:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're probably looking at complete junk or a hand like AK. With the deeper stacks I think folding is the best option in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that kind of self-contradicting? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Okay, okay, I know.. You want to pass up SMALL edges. But this looks like a very significant edge to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, yes it is. Passing up at worst a 57/43 spot and at best a 80/20 chance to double up is absolutely insane. I'd say you're at least 65% here, and no one's good enough to pass that up 10-handed.
Shilly
08-14-2005, 03:41 AM
This means your opponent hates money.
08-14-2005, 05:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This means your opponent hates money.

[/ QUOTE ]
that made me laugh

seriously though, Ive seen people do this all the time with hands like AJ 44 and even T8s...I call
08-14-2005, 06:58 AM
FOLD
my read on the play is that villain has AA or maybe KK.
if he has anything else he would be bluffing, but where is your read that says he might be bluffing.
I am getting a read on you that you posted this hand because you didn't want to fold QQ because people do stupid stuff although you put him on AA and KK.
you needed reassurance on your read.
Your read is very correct so... FOLD~~~ LET GO OF YOUR hand.
these fishes suck doesn't mean much to me.
you can't lay down QQ? then you suck too anyways.

it would be a different story if he doubled up before with 55 vs AK. then you would call. ( you might have a reason to believe he is just bluffing.)
yvesaint
08-14-2005, 08:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
FOLD
my read on the play is that villain has AA or maybe KK.
if he has anything else he would be bluffing, but where is your read that says he might be bluffing.
I am getting a read on you that you posted this hand because you didn't want to fold QQ because people do stupid stuff although you put him on AA and KK.
you needed reassurance on your read.
Your read is very correct so... FOLD~~~ LET GO OF YOUR hand.
these fishes suck doesn't mean much to me.
you can't lay down QQ? then you suck too anyways.

it would be a different story if he doubled up before with 55 vs AK. then you would call. ( you might have a reason to believe he is just bluffing.)

[/ QUOTE ]

With no reads, you think a push is always AA/KK?
kyro
08-14-2005, 11:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
you can't lay down QQ? then you suck too anyways.



[/ QUOTE ]

You should just go ahead and refrain from posting ever again.

OP, he hasn't played a hand yet. And now he's pushing after a raise. If I'm him, my most likely hand is JJ/TT/AK. I don't think folding is terrible because you really don't have a read on the guy, but you can't go wrong with calling here.
08-14-2005, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the responses. I had a horrible feeling I could be up against AA, but I suck too much to lay down QQ preflop /images/graemlins/smile.gif So I called and he actually turned over KK, and I immediately felt like a complete idiot for falling into such an "obvious" trap.
bigt439
08-14-2005, 02:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
FOLD
my read on the play is that villain has AA or maybe KK.
if he has anything else he would be bluffing, but where is your read that says he might be bluffing.
I am getting a read on you that you posted this hand because you didn't want to fold QQ because people do stupid stuff although you put him on AA and KK.
you needed reassurance on your read.
Your read is very correct so... FOLD~~~ LET GO OF YOUR hand.
these fishes suck doesn't mean much to me.
you can't lay down QQ? then you suck too anyways.

it would be a different story if he doubled up before with 55 vs AK. then you would call. ( you might have a reason to believe he is just bluffing.)

[/ QUOTE ]

POTY
08-14-2005, 03:30 PM
I think you guys can't drop KK out of his range of hands. I seriously doubt it's AA, but assuming his g/f didn't just show up, he's probly got 1010-KK or AK, maybe AQ. Still an obvious correct call if equity is your only consideration. I don't mind folding here with the argument that you can wait for a better spot, but I'm calling.
suited_ace
08-14-2005, 04:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're probably looking at complete junk or a hand like AK. With the deeper stacks I think folding is the best option in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that kind of self-contradicting? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Okay, okay, I know.. You want to pass up SMALL edges. But this looks like a very significant edge to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the cards turned face up, I wouldn't call if he showed Ax. This differs a lot from what I'd do in a PP tourney with the absurdely shallow stacks and fast structure, or from what I'd do in an MTT.

The payout structure associated with the blind structure make this a fold in my book. Doubling up here gives you a healthy stack, but by no means guarantees you a spot ITM. The risk/reward ratio is just not worth it, even knowing that I'm a favorite to win the hand.
silencee
08-14-2005, 04:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
FOLD
my read on the play is that villain has AA or maybe KK.
if he has anything else he would be bluffing, but where is your read that says he might be bluffing.
I am getting a read on you that you posted this hand because you didn't want to fold QQ because people do stupid stuff although you put him on AA and KK.
you needed reassurance on your read.
Your read is very correct so... FOLD~~~ LET GO OF YOUR hand.
these fishes suck doesn't mean much to me.
you can't lay down QQ? then you suck too anyways.

it would be a different story if he doubled up before with 55 vs AK. then you would call. ( you might have a reason to believe he is just bluffing.)

[/ QUOTE ]

so what's your party screen name?
yabastid
08-14-2005, 04:51 PM
How had the table been playing? If there had been a lot of raising in the first 10 hands I might be concerned that he was limping a monster. However, if the table had very little action and was playing very tight it would make this an instacall for me. Otherwise it's a twosecondacall /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.
Maulik
08-14-2005, 04:58 PM
call every time &amp; be happy you did
ChuckyB
08-14-2005, 05:21 PM
That's such a ridiculous way to play KK...I guess that's why it worked this time.

I've seen so many people blow their load like that, pick up 45 in blinds and show their cards like they did something well.

That's tough luck. Just remember his name for next time.
nate_king1
08-14-2005, 05:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't look scary to me. Big pockets usually like minireraising. In the party sit'n'gos I play it's an easy all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]
Khern
08-14-2005, 06:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
With the cards turned face up, I wouldn't call if he showed Ax. This differs a lot from what I'd do in a PP tourney with the absurdely shallow stacks and fast structure, or from what I'd do in an MTT.

The payout structure associated with the blind structure make this a fold in my book. Doubling up here gives you a healthy stack, but by no means guarantees you a spot ITM. The risk/reward ratio is just not worth it, even knowing that I'm a favorite to win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


This sounds very wrong. If your opponent shows you A9o, and you know you're getting better than 2-1, you have to call.

gap is not stretched very far this early in a tourney. In mind the gap, eastbay gives equity multipliers for doubling up as you near the bubble. Assuming equal stacks they are 1.61,1.75,1.84,1.88, and 1.92 for 4-8 handed hands.

John