Playing with a skirt against a loose raiser and an unknown

[Jeffage]

Playing 10-20 online. I have Ac8c in early late position. Wild MP who raises many hands opens for a raise. I decide to reraise. SB who I don't know coldcalls. MP caps. 3 to flop of 5-7-9, one club. MP bets, I call, SB calls. Is this an autoraise...I just feel like I've been spraying too many chips in these spots lately and feel like I am surely going to be reraised. Turn is an offsuit Ace. MP bets, I call, SB calls. Raise here? River is another Ace. MP bets, I raise, SB folds, MP calls, and my hand is good. I think I played real crappy? Do you concur and where do u differ? Let's not only talk preflop...I made the move bc I was tired of this guy raising and wanted to isolate him though I do see other options.

Jeff

[astroglide]

preflop: you're in 'early late position' and mp raises in front of you? i'm confused. at any rate, fold, don't 3bet. there are much better times to screw this guy.

flop: i would call if i thought i would get reraised, and raise if i thought i could take a free card on the turn.

i would not raise the river unless they're a payoff artiste with pocket pairs. getting 3bet here absolutely sucks.

[elysium]

hi jeff,
yea the turn....well, first let's look at what you did right because you did a lot of right things here.

the reraise pre-flop...i like it. the flop call....i like it. you do not have position, yea i know, even though you have position you don't here. so yea, it's fine. i like it. if you had position, of course you could raise. i'd be angry with you if you didn't call here. let's look at the turn.

i'm not so much concerned here about the turn as i am about the pre-flop and flop; you played brilliantly. but you have a powerhouse now that you could reraise with. and the turn? jeff....you know? i'm going like this...? what's going on here? now, i don't know if you know how well you played pre-turn. a card here or there, and you're folding. everything had to be just right not to fold on the flop. jeff, i'm worried that your going to play this holding somewhere down the line thinking, "this is a strong, durable. look ma, no three card straight!" and you're going to wrap yourself around a telephone pole with dang thing. what's going on here?

based on how you played the turn, i'm grounding you from playing this holding until you can tell 2+2 why your pre-flop and flop play was so brilliant. the turn does such awful harm to what appeared to be a blossuming masterpiece that i'm like, my gosh, does he know how dangerous that holding is? you can lose a lot of money with it if you play with it outside its environment. let's see what happened. you've got a powerhouse on the turn dude. i see you got the raise in on the river. no. jeff, i don't think you had a handle on it. my opinion. (blossoming)

[elysium]

hi jeff,
jeff this is one of the best posts i've ever read.
yea, i know, the turn. jeff it wasn't that bad. the thing that makes it look so bad, is simply that it's juxtaposed to your excellent pre-flop and flop play. i had a hard time finding this post today, but last night it got me thinking.

well, i didn't see the 5 there. i somehow remembered it as a something else. so let's take a look at this terrific thread, and pretend the 5 is a rag or something; just to bring this excellent post where it deserves to be, on the cutting edge.

your post represents the best opportunity i've seen so far, for teaching us how to make quicker and more correct decisions at the table, by reducing our seemingly infinite number of possible holdings possible in hold em, to just two; 'the yeabut' and the 'hummdinger'.

these are the only two types of holdings that you can enter into a game with. now the yeabut is a hand that qualifies for entry but it has a blemish greater than subtle. the hummdinger of course qualifies, but it has no blemishes greater than subtle. your post gives us a great opportunity to draw a line between blemishes lesser and greater than subtle. and jeff, it is understanding this concept in the stuctured universe of hold em that will enhance our ability to make faster, better, and more correct decisions than we would otherwise be able.

let's look at the pre-flop; o.k., jeff i forgot that you were reraised on the pre-flop. that is a blemish greater than subtle. if you had not been reraised, you would have a holding with no blemishes greater than subtle. let's assume that you were not reraised pre-flop, and that you have a 'hummdinger'. your raise of this particular player in an effort to get heads up was correct for your holding. the call by the SB doesn't represent a blemish greater than subtle. now the reraise does, but let's assume you weren't reraised. at this point in the game you have a hummer and you have played perfectly. let's look at the flop.

o.k., we will assume for our purposes that the 5 is whatever, a K or 2; you have a terrific flop for your hummer. it hasn't lost its 'blemishes less than subtle' status. this is the flop you were looking for. you have a three card straight with back-door. furthermore, you are ace high! man, hey jeff, what a flop! you came into the flop hummdinging, and so far ain't nothing changed that yet.

here's where your post gets very good jeff.

notice something jeff; notice that the SB compromises your status of best position by his action. this is a blemish less than subtle; we're still o.k.; your hummer isn't a yeabut. that is a blemish less than subtle. your call is brilliant. your play, up to now, hasn't given your hand a blemish greater than subtle. the number of opponents is perfect for your holding; no blemishes there. a hummer jeff. looking good. now let's look at the turn.

here is where are knowledge of hand status really comes in. the turn hits you solidly putting you in the lead you think. you need a reference point so that you can make the correct decision. without getting complicated, this is a two tiered decision; on one tier, if you raise you may drive out the SB whereas if you call, he will stay in for more. you should quickly realize that this is offset by the number of times he would draw out on you. so either way, no ev there. it's ev nuetral. on the second tier, if you raise you may be reraised. but that's off set by the number of times you pick up the pot when all fold to your raise. no ev there either! so, both tiers are nuetral as usual. now let's look at that blemish less than subtle and see if we can eliminate it. hmmmm, not enough time. o.k., let's use the hummdinger method for a fast, quick and correct turn decision. if you have a hummdinger raise; if it's a yeabut, call. had the SB bet and the wild dude raised, you have a yeabut; you'd call. if you still have no blemishes greater than subtle, raise. particularly if a raise will remove the little less than subtle blemish that there is. the tiers will take care of themselves.

[elysium]

hi jeff,
had to leave for a bit. one final thing here, keep this as something you can use in your arsenal when pressed for a decision. of course, if you have one of these 'yeabut' type hands, unlike the hummer you posted, and you get checked to, go standard proceedure. if it can improve/ not improve , etc. it's a helper and may have helped in that hand. helps a lot in many hands; but as always, stay with what works best for you. and of course, the sound teachings of mr. d.s. and mr. m.m. see ya.

[astroglide]

3 replies with no response lolol

i'm dying here

[Tyler Durden]

me too, and if that's not evidence of schizophrenia, he should definitely be locked in a padded room.