Value bet?

[jason_t]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: I am MP with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">I raise</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">I raise</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">I cap</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.16 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (9.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#cc3333">I bet intending to what to a raise</font>....

[ArturiusX]

I bet/call here. 1 card in the deck beats you dude.

[imported_stealthcow]

the question should be if you value bet if you have trip tens, no diamond. and i think that answer is yes.

[BottlesOf]

Betting &amp; calling a raise &gt; Betting and 3-betting a raise &gt; checking through &gt; betting and folding to a raise

[ArturiusX]

I also consider 3-betting.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting &amp; calling a raise &gt; Betting and 3-betting a raise &gt; checking through &gt; betting and folding to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just wondering what hands call/raise me that I beat.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
the question should be if you value bet if you have trip tens, no diamond. and i think that answer is yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me that would be an easy bet.

[BottlesOf]

Call: I hope you're kidding

Raise: Not as common, but I've definitely seen it. Sometimes a complete bluff, sometimes an idiot with bway who misses the flush, sometimes the 3rd nuts.

[BottlesOf]

Just b/c you could easily fold to a c/r?

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Call: I hope you're kidding

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't even mean to include the word call in my last post. I know I'll be called here by AJ/QJ/JT a lot.

[ QUOTE ]
Raise: Not as common, but I've definitely seen it. Sometimes a complete bluff, sometimes an idiot with bway who misses the flush, sometimes the 3rd nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put him on K9/QJ/JT/KQ first and maybe AJ. You think he raises here with the 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or a non-/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting &amp; calling a raise &gt; Betting and 3-betting a raise &gt; checking through &gt; betting and folding to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just wondering what hands call/raise me that I beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might cr you with any king. And it wouldn't be a bad play.

Krishan

[PokerBob]

call

[mperich]

I dont get it. Call a raise.

-Mike

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont get it. Call a raise.

-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was wondering. Would a typical 3/6 6m player check/raise here with a hand that I beat?

[mperich]

Folding the 2nd nuts for 1 bet on the river is pretty much never correct unless the opponent is UNBELIEVABLY passive.

-Mike

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont get it. Call a raise.

-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was wondering. Would a typical 3/6 6m player check/raise here with a hand that I beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Especially given that there is exactly one hand that beats you.

Rob

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
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I dont get it. Call a raise.

-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was wondering. Would a typical 3/6 6m player check/raise here with a hand that I beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Especially given that there is exactly one hand that beats you.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think if he check/raises the river his hand looks like K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9 or K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q?

[tadams1133]

I really dont get it. Folding would be an absolutely terrible play.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding the 2nd nuts for 1 bet on the river is pretty much never correct unless the opponent is UNBELIEVABLY passive.

-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately I had no read.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I really dont get it. Folding would be an absolutely terrible play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about what the villain thinks I might have. Looks like I could have flopped the nuts with AK. His hand looks like K9/QJ/JT/QT/KQ. If he check/raises the river his hand looks a lot like K9/KQ with the K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and not scared of me having AK with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting &amp; calling a raise &gt; Betting and 3-betting a raise &gt; checking through &gt; betting and folding to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just wondering what hands call/raise me that I beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the King of diamonds usually bets this river, for fear that it gets checked through.

Also, any diamond, a set if it's out there, maybe two pair, and a non/images/graemlins/diamond.gif king will call.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting &amp; calling a raise &gt; Betting and 3-betting a raise &gt; checking through &gt; betting and folding to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just wondering what hands call/raise me that I beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the King of diamonds usually bets this river, for fear that it gets checked through.

Also, any diamond, a set if it's out there, maybe two pair, and a non/images/graemlins/diamond.gif king will call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I didn't mean to ask what hands will call; I know the answer to that. I meant to just ask what do you put villain on if I am raised?

[billyjex]

sounds like you are being results oriented.

folding to a C/R is HORRIBLE. play more 6-max and you will see some of the craziest bluffy [censored]. especially readless.. you need to call this everytime.

do not look to find folds at 6-max.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
sounds like you are being results oriented.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I'm not; I didn't get check/raised. Before I bet I wondered what I would do IF I got check/raised. I didn't know.

[ QUOTE ]
folding to a C/R is HORRIBLE. play more 6-max and you will see some of the craziest bluffy [censored]. especially readless.. you need to call this everytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. I'm very new to this and I haven't seen any crazy [censored] but people keep warning me. It's nice to hear the reinforcement.

[ QUOTE ]
do not look to find folds at 6-max.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes it different than full? Are people just hyperaggressive because they think that's how they are supposed to be at 6m?

[jogumon]

The only hand that beats you is Kd. Your opponent would have to be very passive to check/call the turn with the straight, and the nut flush draw. I find it really hard to put the opponent on the Kd. Easy bet and call a raise.

[Derek in NYC]

[ QUOTE ]
the question should be if you value bet if you have trip tens, no diamond. and i think that answer is yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagee. Small flushes and str8s will call. There is no value to betting in the hypothetical situation where hero has trip tens, no diamonds.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the question should be if you value bet if you have trip tens, no diamond. and i think that answer is yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagee. Small flushes and str8s will call. There is no value to betting in the hypothetical situation where hero has trip tens, no diamonds.

[/ QUOTE ]

He'll also call with AJ/QJ/JT/QT which are all reasonable hands here.

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]

What makes it different than full? Are people just hyperaggressive because they think that's how they are supposed to be at 6m?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, pretty much. there's a lot of retarded aggression (and good aggression) by your opponents. I guess it's basically because the nature of shorthanded leads to much more HU/3-way pots with more marginal hands, and aggression is rewarded.

basically, I think you'll be better off making more marginal calls than you are used too. I have called down turn C/R's w/ K high against some aggressive opponents and been correct -- it's crazy, but you'll get used to it. At least you have 3/6 6-max.. i had to jump right into 5/10.

[Surfbullet]

Posting blind:

I bet-call here, and don't think too much about it. Too much value to check behind and I'm not 10:1 sure he wont raise less than the 2nd nuts, or a bluff.

Surf

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the question should be if you value bet if you have trip tens, no diamond. and i think that answer is yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagee. Small flushes and str8s will call. There is no value to betting in the hypothetical situation where hero has trip tens, no diamonds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely wrong. You will be called by a significant amount of 1- and 2- pair hands. Just because you will also be called by a worse hand doesn't stop this from being a value bet.

Surf

[Jeff W]

Easy bet-call.

[DMBFan23]

I think the point was that as it is, he's good often enough to have a value bet. if he had no diamonds, suddenly all those hands that were paying him off are suddenly collecting from him

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the point was that as it is, he's good often enough to have a value bet. if he had no diamonds, suddenly all those hands that were paying him off are suddenly collecting from him

[/ QUOTE ]

It is true that there are straight- and smaller flush hands that call both ways, but beat us when we don't have the T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif - but the river value-bet with the 2nd nuts is laughably easy. Value-betting with a set of Ts -no diamond - is thinner but still clearly for value.

Surf

[Entity]

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I dont get it. Call a raise.

-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was wondering. Would a typical 3/6 6m player check/raise here with a hand that I beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Especially given that there is exactly one hand that beats you.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think if he check/raises the river his hand looks like K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9 or K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say when you get checkraised on the river he'll have the K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif about 60% of the time. That's just a guess. I got checkraised in similar situation the other day (4-flush on board) with the nutlow flush. Shortly before that I was bluff-checkraised on a similarly scary board. I think he'll have the K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif a good portion of the time when you get checkraised but not a good enough portion of the time to consider folding for a half second.

Rob

[SippinSoma]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
do not look to find folds at 6-max.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes it different than full? Are people just hyperaggressive because they think that's how they are supposed to be at 6m?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.