Protected Pots

[QTip]

Like some help again please. I was reading pages 177-179 of hepfap and Sklanksy talks about protected pots. I don't have "Sklanksy on Poker" yet, so I've done a bit of research here in the forum search as well as other poker sites to get some more information on this concept and examples of it's use (and the reverse use example that Sklansky gives in hepfap with c/ring A2). I've found a couple things including a current article from the 2+2 magazine and an article from Malmuth at CardPlayer.com, but there wasn't a lot of details really, and I'm not totally latched on to it yet, so I'm making this post.

Anyone have a great definition for this concept they could share, and what would be even better is an example hand or 2 where someone used this concept in play. Or...a good link that I may have missed.

Again, thanks for the help.

[slavic]

The concept of a protected pot is just that, there are multiple people with vested interest (or maybe not) in the hand and it reduces the chance the a players bet or raise is unpure. So when the tricky guy bets into 4 players in a 12BB pot, well he has something of value.

[thejameser]

how you doing man? because of multiple players the pot is protected from a bluff. i think this is also discussed(or originally clarified for me)in Mason's Poker Essays II or III, i forget.

[slavic]

Here you go, it's not exactly what your thinking of, but here is a situation were some abnormal play occurs from a protected pot.
Bernies worse nightmare (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=1971891 &Forum=f3&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=196580 9&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=2884&daterange=1& newerval=&newertype=w&olderval=1&oldertype=d&bodyp rev=#Post1971891)

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
how you doing man? because of multiple players the pot is protected from a bluff. i think this is also discussed(or originally clarified for me)in Mason's Poker Essays II or III, i forget.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doing really well, thanks. I don't remember reading that in those, so I'll look them over again, thanks.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Here you go, it's not exactly what your thinking of, but here is a situation were some abnormal play occurs from a protected pot.
Bernies worse nightmare (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=1971891 &Forum=f3&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=196580 9&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=2884&daterange=1& newerval=&newertype=w&olderval=1&oldertype=d&bodyp rev=#Post1971891)

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting...thanks for the explanation and the link. I'm going to reread the section now, and see if I can make more sense out of the text.

[QTip]

I just played this hand as I was reading Slavic's link.

10/20 Party

A complete donk limps UTG (I've got the wrong chair in this game, I need to be to his left...but...I'm not) He's been showing down K high to aggression...etc.

Another fairly loose player limps MP1

A decent MP3 limps

A laggy co raises

folded to me in the bb with 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I call, and it's called around for 10 sb

Flop: K /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

folded around to the PF raiser who bets, I'm next.

Normally, I'd like to raise here, but at least UTG is going nowhere in this hand even for 2. I'm thinking he's protecting this pot here. If I knew I had a good chance to get this HU, I would raise here. I really wanted to continue here, but my position sucks, especially since someone like the decent player know that co will bet with 2 cards and UTG will call makes a c/r pretty likely if he's staying. So, I folded.

Thoughts on this? Am I understanding the concept correctly here with the UTG player effecting my play on the flop?

[chief444]

Laggy CO is betting about any flop right? It's pretty unlikely anyone's checking a K right? A lot of the opponents would even bet diamonds right? There are 11 SB's in the pot right? The K on the board makes it pretty damn tough for a lot of 6 outers to call a check raise right?

How the xxxx did you win like $160 from me so far? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I just played this hand as I was reading Slavic's link.

10/20 Party

A complete donk limps UTG (I've got the wrong chair in this game, I need to be to his left...but...I'm not) He's been showing down K high to aggression...etc.

Another fairly loose player limps MP1

A decent MP3 limps

A laggy co raises

folded to me in the bb with 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I call...

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who thinks that this call is foolish, and the first step in what could become a sequence of "compounding errors."

[chief444]

Getting 9.5:1 with a middle connector, with great relative position to the LAGGY LP, I think preflop is fine. But he needs to use that relative position on the flop IMO. Thoughts?

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just played this hand as I was reading Slavic's link.

10/20 Party

A complete donk limps UTG (I've got the wrong chair in this game, I need to be to his left...but...I'm not) He's been showing down K high to aggression...etc.

Another fairly loose player limps MP1

A decent MP3 limps

A laggy co raises

folded to me in the bb with 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I call...

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who thinks that this call is foolish, and the first step in what could become a sequence of "compounding errors."

[/ QUOTE ]

chesspain:

We've (several posters) been discussing these types of hands in the bb in these situations for a while now.

I will say this:

If a player is going to play their hand the way I did here, the call sucks. However, getting 9:1 here, I really feel this call is good....if I could just learn to play postflop now, I could see a profit here.

Sklanksy talks about this sort of thing in hepfap page 42. Granted the hand he gave there was 89o, but the concept stands.