New Language: Chinese or Japanese

[chisness]

I'm going to be a sophomore in college next year, studying engineering. I've got deferred admission for an MBA after I graduate and do a couple years of work.

I expect to do something with business/engineering.

Will it be useful to learn Chinese or Japanese? Which one will be more useful in, say, 10 years? I know Japan is big now, but it seems that things might be moving China's way.

I'm looking to probably use the Rosetta Stone software -- any opinions on this?

[imported_anacardo]

Arabic!

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

japanese. It is IMO one of the easiest languages to learn (except for the kanji). I have heard that chinese is one of the hardest to learn. Also japanese makes more sense for buisness related stuff.

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
japanese. It is IMO one of the easiest languages to learn (except for the kanji). I have heard that chinese is one of the hardest to learn. Also japanese makes more sense for buisness related stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your 15 years out of date. China is rocking economically these days. Since this is OOT, the japanese chicks are hotter but there are not as many of them. Just one more thing to consider...

[Luzion]

[ QUOTE ]
japanese. It is IMO one of the easiest languages to learn (except for the kanji). I have heard that chinese is one of the hardest to learn. Also japanese makes more sense for buisness related stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is silly. Japanese has a complicated writing system and grammar. Not to mention there are many ways to say things in differing levels of politeness. And "kanji" is a really big part of Japanese. I dont know how you can say Japanese is an easy language at all. Its one of the hardest imo, though definintely not as hard as Chinese.

I say learn Chinese. Choose Mandarin. Everyone knows that this is the language of the future. China will become more powerful and companies will be looking for people that can speak/write Chinese to become part of that boom. Plus, if you learn to read/write Chinese, you already have a large foundation in Japanese kanji.


Oh yeah, right now I am trying to learn Mandarin. I already speak Cantonese with pretty good fluency, so I am using Pimsleur to learn how to speak Mandarin. I downloaded the first three lessons of Pimsleur Mandarin on EMule hehehe... Later on Ill find something to help me learn how to read and write Chinese...

[chisness]

Mandarin is the one that Rosetta Stone offers -- looks like i'll have to do some research to figure out which one would be best

[chunk]

Chinese and its not even close.

seriously- not even close.

[benza13]

Last semester I took a class called China's Challenges to the Global Economy. It was a Political Science class, but we also covered a ton of economic stuff. Learning Japanese may help more for the next few years still, but pretty soon Chinese will be far more valuable in the long run.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]


That is silly. Japanese has a complicated writing system and grammar. Not to mention there are many ways to say things in differing levels of politeness.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have to disagree. I took japanese for only 2 years in HS. My family is italian and my dads side is all fluent and speak it at family gatherings and stuff. I went to itally for 6 weeks. I took italian in college. I still know MUCH more japanese than italian. The gramar of japanese is actaully quite logical (and they actually do have very few exceptions, unlike engilsh.) The hardest parts of japanese are kanji (obviously) and the weird words they use for describing objects in plural (that [censored] doesnt make any sense).

[mostsmooth]

chinese

[Luzion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


That is silly. Japanese has a complicated writing system and grammar. Not to mention there are many ways to say things in differing levels of politeness.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have to disagree. I took japanese for only 2 years in HS. My family is italian and my dads side is all fluent and speak it at family gatherings and stuff. I went to itally for 6 weeks. I took italian in college. I still know MUCH more japanese than italian. The gramar of japanese is actaully quite logical (and they actually do have very few exceptions, unlike engilsh.) The hardest parts of japanese are kanji (obviously) and the weird words they use for describing objects in plural (that [censored] doesnt make any sense).

[/ QUOTE ]

The primary reason why Japanese is hard to learn is because of the politeness levels. Depending on someones age, gender, or their position relative to yours you have to change your style of speech.


So... if you cant learn to read/write Japanese because of the hard Kanji, and you cant converse with someone because its so overly complicated in how you address someone based on their age, sex, and "position" in society... how can you say its even easy?

[IronDragon1]

Chinese.

We can rag on white people together (as soon as I learn)

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]

I expect to do something with business/engineering.

Will it be useful to learn Chinese or Japanese?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are fairly certain of a field of interest, it would be best to talk to someone already working in that field. I have a relative who works for a major manufacturer of telecom equipment. He speaks Spanish, and that has been a big plus in his career, as the company does a lot of business in Latin America.

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
So... if you cant learn to read/write Japanese because of the hard Kanji, and you cant converse with someone because its so overly complicated in how you address someone based on their age, sex, and "position" in society... how can you say its even easy?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't write kanji, you can always get by with kana.

Politeness levels are still regulary constructed--learn two or three conjugations and you've learned them all. If you don't know which to use, you can always over-polite it.

Spoken Japanese is still the nuts.

Edit: Learning to read kanji isn't that hard; learning to read it out loud is what's difficult. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ChipWrecked]

Any reason why not Spanish? In terms of every day applicability in the United States anyway.....

[Broken Glass Can]

Chinese. You will be ahead of the game. The rest of us will have to learn Chinese down the road anyway when they become our overlords.

[Larimani]

chinese and it's not even close.

[BonJoviJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Arabic!

[/ QUOTE ]

[AngryCola]

I love all the people who are saying, "Chinese, and it's not even close."

First of all, that's a horrible cliche which needs to die.
Secondly, take some time to list reasons. If it's not even close, you should be able to list at least a few.

Anyway, I would choose Japanese, because there is a good chance I'll be living there one day.

[handsome]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
japanese. It is IMO one of the easiest languages to learn (except for the kanji). I have heard that chinese is one of the hardest to learn. Also japanese makes more sense for buisness related stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is silly. Japanese has a complicated writing system and grammar. Not to mention there are many ways to say things in differing levels of politeness. And "kanji" is a really big part of Japanese. I dont know how you can say Japanese is an easy language at all. Its one of the hardest imo, though definintely not as hard as Chinese.

I say learn Chinese. Choose Mandarin. Everyone knows that this is the language of the future. China will become more powerful and companies will be looking for people that can speak/write Chinese to become part of that boom. Plus, if you learn to read/write Chinese, you already have a large foundation in Japanese kanji.


Oh yeah, right now I am trying to learn Mandarin. I already speak Cantonese with pretty good fluency, so I am using Pimsleur to learn how to speak Mandarin. I downloaded the first three lessons of Pimsleur Mandarin on EMule hehehe... Later on Ill find something to help me learn how to read and write Chinese...

[/ QUOTE ]

Luzion's post is VERY biased, since he is a already a native chinese speaker, so take his advice with a grain of salt.

The fact of the matter is that Chinese is much harder to learn than Japanese. When it comes to pronunciation, there are a lot more subtleties that you wouldn't be able to pick up as an adult because it's past your critical period for language development. An incorrect pronunciation of a syllable could change a word's entire meaning. And not to mention the written language is nuts.

I am studying Japanese myself and it is very easy to pick up.

[Luzion]

[ QUOTE ]
Luzion's post is VERY biased, since he is a already a native chinese speaker, so take his advice with a grain of salt.

The fact of the matter is that Chinese is much harder to learn than Japanese. When it comes to pronunciation, there are a lot more subtleties that you wouldn't be able to pick up as an adult because it's past your critical period for language development. An incorrect pronunciation of a syllable could change a word's entire meaning. And not to mention the written language is nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa whoa... I never said Chinese was easy; in fact mentioned that Chinese WAS harder then Japanese as I said here...

[ QUOTE ]
I dont know how you can say Japanese is an easy language at all. Its one of the hardest imo, though definintely not as hard as Chinese.

[/ QUOTE ]

My post was to refute the point that people said Japanese is "easy." It is not easy, but definitely not as hard as Chinese of course. Just remember that no one has countered my point about the differing levels of "politeness" that native Japanese use. You'll probably be learning how to speak overly polite Japanese and might not understand when someone speaks to you in other "styles" of Japanese...



http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/archives/200404/images/laugh.jpg
j/k /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Blarg]

I constantly hear about how last century was accurately described by the phrase, "The American Century," but that "The Chinese Century" will more accurately describe the next one.

The income there is only a few hundred dollars a year, but with over a billion people, that's still an enormous market that pretty much no one can afford to be left out of. We give them most favored nation status despite the fact that they use prison labor to make goods, etc. - it doesn't really matter what they do, we're all bowing down because of the gargantuan amounts of money already tied up in the country and that will continue to flood in there.

Like Taiwan, it is already losing some of its cachet as the place to go to get cheap high quality labor, but it's still cheap enough and workable enough to keep the money flooding in. And as the nation upgrades the training, wealth, and general education of its citizens, it will have to rely less and less on being a repository of cheap labor. When you have a billion people, even pretty incremental changes for the better add up to a lot more power and wealth over time. And in many places, the changes are far from pretty incremental.

I'd do Chinese without hesitation. China's a monster.

[sexdrugsmoney]

Alright listen puto.

Mandarin Chinese aka 'Putonghua' is the next biggest thing. China is rapidly becoming part of the world market and Yankees who speak "the common language" (putonghua) will be treated like <font color="yellow">GOLD</font>.

Japan's GNP is off the hook but Japanese is only really useful in Japan, wheras Chinese spreads far and wide. ("Chinatowns everywhere!")

Anyway, despite all this, I say you should ditch the plans to learn a difficult language in college.

Trust me, college is going to [censored] you up more than you can anticipate and learning one of the hardest languages and complex writing systems will just put an extra burden on you.

Choose Spanish, it's fun, easy, and in 10 years Latinos will make up I think 40% of the US population. (read that somewhere while drunk)

So yeah, choose Spanish, trust me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DasLeben]

Du sollst Deutsch lernen. Die Sprache ist einer der größte der Welt, und du immer betrunken zu sein scheinen kannst. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Being serious though...I'd definitely like to learn Japanese, but I think Chinese is your best bet. As far as programs go, I'd definitely do something along the lines of Pimsleur. I've used Rosetta Stone before, and it progressed far too slowly for my tastes. I am now, however, very fluent in expressing thoughts about kids jumping over tables.

A far less costly option than Pimsleur is the Barron's "Mastering" series. I'm using that right now, and it's great for learning how to speak a language. I got the full set at Barnes and Noble for $90. I'd look into it before dumping a grand for a full Pimsleur course.

[Allinlife]

&amp;#51473;&amp;#44397;&amp;#50612; &amp;#48176;&amp;#50892;&amp;#50836;

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
&amp;#51473;&amp;#44397;&amp;#50612; &amp;#48176;&amp;#50892;&amp;#50836;

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[chisness]

Say I learn Chinese. Will this help in learning Japanese in the future? Will Japanese after Chinese be so minorly useful to the point that it'd be far better to learn Chinese very well than to try to learn both?

My reasoning is that as far as I can tell, and as far as many are saying, Chinese is going to be GREAT to know in a few years. Economically and for business this makes Chinese the clear choice. However, from what I can tell, China is no where near as clean or technological as Japan. It seems shady and run down, while it would seem really cool to be a part of the Japanese culture. Even so, I don't really like travelling very much and I do like money a lot, so I think this should be more of an economic decision than one for enjoyability.

[Lawrence Ng]

This is why you should learn Chinese..

http://www.cnw.com/~josh/Zhang_Ziyi.jpg


Lawrence

[Rearden]

NH

[Luzion]

Goddamn you LawrenceNg. I was sure you would defend learning the Chinese language vehemently... and then mentioning how awesome the chinese food is in Toronto...:(

Anyway as for Zhang ZiYi...she doesnt look that great without her makeup...

Thats for sure...

http://www.geocities.com/pauline_ling9/3.jpg

[ChipWrecked]

I play (the game which must not be named) in California. So I have some Chinese:

Ay Yay Yai!

[7ontheline]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why you should learn Chinese..

http://www.cnw.com/~josh/Zhang_Ziyi.jpg


Lawrence

[/ QUOTE ]

She is SO hot it's not even funny. Numerous people have told my wife that she looks like Zhang Ziyi - I am a lucky man. (She does look like her - not AS hot, but no shame in that really)

[sexdrugsmoney]

[ QUOTE ]
Say I learn Chinese. Will this help in learning Japanese in the future? Will Japanese after Chinese be so minorly useful to the point that it'd be far better to learn Chinese very well than to try to learn both?

My reasoning is that as far as I can tell, and as far as many are saying, Chinese is going to be GREAT to know in a few years. Economically and for business this makes Chinese the clear choice. However, from what I can tell, China is no where near as clean or technological as Japan. It seems shady and run down, while it would seem really cool to be a part of the Japanese culture. Even so, I don't really like travelling very much and I do like money a lot, so I think this should be more of an economic decision than one for enjoyability.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are serious you will already have a phrasebook of both languages and you can go through and compare.

You'll find almost no sound similarities, and about 2000 Characters of Chinese are found in the Japanese language.

Aspirations of learning this then that are all good, but get one first, and if it's chinese, be prepared for a studious 3-4 years.

Cheers,
SDM

[chisness]

i am very serious and will probably buy the rosetta chinese software this week

i'm willing to put a lot into it and think it'll pay off

[Lawrence Ng]

Luzion are you high?

Lawrence

[lastsamurai]

i WOULD learn viet...so next time you play at commerce you know what DO MAH means.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]

i am very serious and will probably buy the rosetta chinese software this week

i'm willing to put a lot into it and think it'll pay off

[/ QUOTE ]

Learn what "taa ma deh" means..and use it wisely young one.

Lawrence

[Bill Murphy]

Mandarin, and its not even remotely close.

[cnfuzzd]

off hand, i will say japanese, buts thats only cause there is an eighties song called 'turning japanese'.

I also question the wisdom of allowing this forum to determine you class schedule. That should always be guided by the precept of "no mwf classes"

peace

john nickle

[chisness]

cnfuzzd,

i actually plan on at least initially trying to study it at home with computer software -- while i could take a few classes at my school, i won't have time for it in my schedule (it's a one course every quarter for all four years deal, which just won't fit)