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waynethetrain

08-13-2005, 01:44 PM

I considered raising the flop with the pair and open ended
STR8, but figured I was better off with more callers.

When the 2nd Jack fell on the turn and the flop bettor checked, I thought there was a very good chance my 9s were actually ahead. So I bet to protect them (plus I still had the STR8 draw).

Was this correct?

I was a little surprised to be check raised in that spot. I called because I had pot odds for the STR8.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls, Button folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, UTG folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

GrunchCan

08-13-2005, 02:00 PM

I fold the flop. Given that you called, I don't bet the turn. I don't want to try and protect a marginal hand on a very dangerous board, and I don't think you have any fold equity at all.

irishpint

08-13-2005, 02:01 PM

your straight isn't to the nuts, btw. a 7 is good. a Q is bad. your hand isn't as strong as you think it is I don't think. I might raise th flop and force everyone to call 2 if they want to come, perhaps cleaning up your Qs a little bit. another option is just folding the turn or flop, since our straight is weak, we dont have 2 pair outs really and we have bottom pair as it is.

Fantam

08-13-2005, 02:06 PM

I think that your reasoning for your turn bet was correct, because you did not want to give a free card to drawing hands if your hand was best.

However, when SB check-raised the turn, it strongly suggests that he bet the flop with top pair, which had now become trips.

I dont think that you necessarily had as many outs to your straight as you thought though. A Q would have given anyone with a K a higher straight than yours. Also a Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif or 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif could have completed a flush draw for someone.

I think that you probably only had about 3 clean outs to a non /images/graemlins/spade.gif7, because a 9 falling on the river would probably mean a full house for SB.

So I think that I would probably have folded to SB's raise on the turn.

Fantam

08-13-2005, 02:20 PM

Reconsidering my earlier post, I mistakenly thought that you had middle pair on the flop and turn.

So I dont think that I would have bet the turn, and I think that Grunchcan's suggestion to fold this hand on the flop on a dangerous board in a multiway pot is sensible.

waynethetrain

08-13-2005, 11:49 PM

I understand what you are saying.

I certainly had fewer outs than I thought at the time I played the hand (they are always clearer when you have time to review them and aren't multi-tabling for a bonus). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

My feeling on the turn when it was checked was that the flop bettor didn't have a pair (obviously incorrect after the fact). I estimated the chances of one of the other 2 players having a T and thus being ahead of my pair of 9s, at about 33% (give or take). So I was actually giving myself a pretty high probablity of being ahead despite the dangerous board. Plus, even though I didn't have a lot of clean outs, I had a few. The big shock to me was the check raise.