Incident at Commerce not involving poker

[jason_t]

I'm not sure where to post this, but there are so many knowledgeable people on this site that I hope someone can help.

The south side of the Commerce parking lot has a huge dip in that can't be seen in the middle of the night. There are no warning signs and no cones. Tonight while looking for a parking spot I drove over this dip at < 5 mph and the front of my car slammed into the concrete and the bumper now needs body work.

I reported the incident to the Commerce management and an incident report was filed; they took photos of the damage to my car, made copies of my license, registration and proof of insurance. They also took photos of the dip in their parking lot.

After filing the report, they told me there is no circumstance under which they will pay for it.

I asked them about the dip: if they planned to fix it, why they didn't have cones out, etc. They told me they had no plans to fix it and they told me they don't put cones out because people just move them anyway. Tonight when I left Commerce they had cones out.

I feel they should be responsible for paying for the repair work on my car; it's a 2004 Honda Civic LX which was in excellent physical condition until this. I'm obsessive about my car especially since I'll be trading it in next month.

What steps should I take to get them to pay for the repairs?

[chesspain]

If you have Collision or Comprehensive coverage, see if your policy will cover it. Indeed, if this is a covered loss (after your deductable), forcing your insurance company to pay for this loss would likely cause them to go after Commerce's insurance company, which also means that you will likely be reimbursed for your deductable if Commerce is forced to pay.

Otherwise, your only other options might be either Small Claims Court or the state Gaming Commision.

[Chief911]

Go down at take another picture of the site with the cones around it. That's essentially an admission that they should have been doing that previously. That makes them negligent, and I think you have a pretty easy case.

Nick

[betgo]

I got food poisoning in a restaurant one and I called a couple of small-time ambulance chaser type lawyers. They both told me I had a case, but it was not worth their time to pursue it. Generally they will talk to you for a couple of minutes and let you know if you have anything.

If you don't get knowledgable responses here, try contacting a friend in the legal orinsurance fields.

[garion888]

[ QUOTE ]
Go down at take another picture of the site with the cones around it. That's essentially an admission that they should have been doing that previously. That makes them negligent, and I think you have a pretty easy case.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also go down and take pictures if there aren't cones out. This will help to establish a pattern of negligent behavior. This shouldn't be totally necessary but it could only help to bolster your case. Be sure to put a copy of the day's newspaper or something in the picture to prove the dates of the photos.

Get a copy of the report you filed with them. Be sure you that you document any further conversations with them about the issue.

Then...I don't know what you do. I'm only good at the information collecting bit. I'd say you probably should talk to your insurance company first...but they might require a police report for an accident?? I've never owned a car so I don't really know where the next step is...

[mslif]

First, I hope you got a copy of the incident report. Second, I would contact your insurance and tell them what happened. I would also take pictures of your damages and the hole. Make a demand in writing to Commerce including pictures and maybe some statute references and/or case law proving your case (I can help you find those pretty easily). I am sure this place has pretty good insurance coverage for this type of sitution and it would not be worth it for them to fight your claim.

[RydenStoompala]

Send a letter demanding restitution to the property owners (President). Acknowledge that they have pictures and a description on file.

Then, when they write you back and say "bla bla bla...no," file a claim in small claims court and make them drag a $450 an hour lawyer down to the clerk's office to sort it out. You'll get paid and it wont cost you more than postage and a little time.

[mslif]

[ QUOTE ]
Send a letter demanding restitution to the property owners (President). Acknowledge that they have pictures and a description on file.

Then, when they write you back and say "bla bla bla...no," file a claim in small claims court and make them drag a $450 an hour lawyer down to the clerk's office to sort it out. You'll get paid and it wont cost you more than postage and a little time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if he files a complaint in small court, he will have to pay for the filing of the complaint and then he will have to pay a process server to serve Summons to the defendant. All of this might cost around $150.00 depending on what the filing fee is in your county.You can always get that money back if you get a judgment against them.
I will definitely send a demand letter first and try to solve it without involving the court system.

[ QUOTE ]
Go down at take another picture of the site with the cones around it. That's essentially an admission that they should have been doing that previously. That makes them negligent, and I think you have a pretty easy case.

Nick

[/ QUOTE ]

100% inaccurate. Remedial measures by a company cannot be used as evidence of negligence. It can be used as evidence to show that the casino has CONTROL of the parking lot and the ability to fix any problems if they later say they don't have the authority to fix a dip.

I would take pictures and the site and see if other cars have problems with the dip. Small claims court is your best bet. Going through your insurance company for what 500-1500 in damages will not result in any action by your insurance company and they will raise your rates.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
I would take pictures and the site and see if other cars have problems with the dip.

[/ QUOTE ]

The dip is gigantic. When I saw how massive it was I was totally shocked that they hadn't at least brought a truck full of dirt in to fill it up.

If that is the case it is best to get a picture before they do make any changes. The joy of small claims court is that you do not need a lawyer as mentioned. I am a lawyer and for something like this a lawyer adds nothing but another hand out for money.

Small claims complaints are cheap and service on a corporation like Commerce can be done by anybody (not you, over 18) by hand delivery to some higher up at the casino (ie not the chip runner). If they already told you to pound pavement, a "demand" letter will be ignored and if you are trading the car in soon, speed is necessary. Oh, also take pictures of the car's damage for lots of angles in sunlight.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I would take pictures and the site and see if other cars have problems with the dip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any other sedan driving over this dip would have the same problem; it is a massive dip.

[Evan]

I already told Jason this but I'll post it here in case anyone cares.

This is a textbook negligence case. Negligence has 4 requirements:

1) Duty of care - Commerce Casino has a responsibility to maintain their parking facility so it is safe for cars to drive through it.
2) Breach of duty - Commerce allowed a condition to exist (for a while from what I can tell) that made it dangerous to drive through the parking garage.
3) Actual harm - Jason's car has physical damage due to the hole. (Note: People/organizations can be as negligent as they want and as long as no actual harm occurs they cannot found guilty of negligence)
4) Proximate cause - The hole in the parking garage is solely responsible for Jason's car is damaged. If the hole were not there Jason's care would be fine.


[/class on tort law pays off]

[smb394]

I don't really have anything to add, but if anyone has an pictures of this dip laying around, I'd love to see them posted. I'm very intrigued by this seemingly huge crater.

[boondockst]

Not to be the bad guy but do you have a stock suspension or have you done adjustments?

[pokerrookie]

Is any of this worth it if they were to pay your claim, and then never allow you into their casino again? Just a thought.

1. If you're that worked up about it, file in small claims. Don't bother with a lawyer--generally, you don't need one for small claims, and you've received the same legal advice in this thread that you'll get from any attorney. Unless you have a family member or friend who is a lawyer and who will file suit for you as a courtesy, using an attorney for a matter this small is a waste of your money and his/her time.

2. As was mentioned in the last post, consider the possibility that the casino will treat you as a "persona non grata" from here on out should you sue it.

3. So many god damn lawyers out there, aren't there? Just look at the responses to this thread. (No flamers, please. . . I'm one myself.)

[RacersEdge]

This sounds like a job for Clark Howard - I believe he is syndicated nationwide now.

Also, there might be other local consumer advocates who can get you to a faster solution.

[sternroolz]

I can't believe that Commerce still has left those pot holes there. Normally Commerce is quite careful about this stuff. However, lately I have noticed a number of things slipping that are beyond the control of the public contact employees. In fact, some of the floor people there have told me that they have brought these items to managements attention and management ignores them. Amoung these items are the speed/quality of food service, the need to have most/all cocktail waitresses utilizing the carts unstead of carrying very heavy, injury and workers comp causing trays, crappy valet, and the numerous(there is more than one) holes in the dirt area of the parking lot under the power line towers.

I have noticed a few companies whose managerial decisions as of late can best be described as "retarded". Commerce is another one of those companies. To let something with very easy potential fixes such as these potholes just slide shows either laziness or incompetence on the part of the responsible management personel or the same of whoever is ultimately responsible for approving funds to fix them. Commerce is a very long way from feeling anything in the pocket book, but it dumbfounds me that a company such as this would let stuff slide that has very easy and very inexpensive solutions.

IMHO, such gross negligence that I would terminate whoever is responsible for the situation.

For those that are not aware, there is a dirt area in the middle of Commerce Casino's parking lot. During this past winter, Los Angeles experienced severe rain...maybe during April or May. I forget exactly. At the end of this rain, Commerce was left with several large holes in the dirt area. These holes have grown in size since then. If I were to drive my low profile car(Infiniti G35 Coupe) "over" one of these holes, I would be stuck with a wheel or two spinning in mid air. The largest of these holes is at least three feet deep and 7-8 feet across. It is right next to the start of the pavement. I am very surpised to hear that this is the first time someone has crashed. The original poster is correct, it is very difficult to see at night.

If you feel for whatever reason that you cannot pursue this via your insurance company, and you need to trade in the car soon, you must do the following:

1.) Take pictures and videotape of the spot where you hit at both day and night time.

2.) Same for your car.

3.) 3 estimates on repair of your car.

4.) Demand letter to Commerce via certified mail. Attach the letters.

4.) Give Commerce 2 weeks to respond, or whatever statute requires. File a small claims case once the time statute for responding to a demand letter expires or when and if Commerce sends you a letter denying your claim.

5.) Get your car fixed.

6.) Go to court with the actual cost of the repair and the pictures and video you have taken. You may also note for the court that Commerce could have: A.) Taped off the area
B.) Fenced off the area or C.) Paved the location. All three are relatively cheap options and Commerce chose to neglect the situation instead