10/20 6max: this may also cause a ruckus - TJo [Archive]

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Surfbullet

08-13-2005, 01:47 AM

villain is 35/23/3.3 over 114.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises

Surf

Catt

08-13-2005, 01:51 AM

I need more than a statistical read to do this. You might convince me that this was worthwhile with specific post-flop play reads, current table images / situation, etc., but without it it just looks like spewing to me. Is that a ruckus?

7ontheline

08-13-2005, 01:52 AM

I think it's fine. I do this sometimes too, since a raise on the flop gets no respect. The flat-call flop, raise turn looks more like a made hand. The real question is what was this guy's showdown % and what is your table image? I find that this move will work sometimes on TAGs or LAGs that respect aggression. Use sparingly, however, lest you get looked up every time you semibluff.

dave44

08-13-2005, 01:58 AM

Surf,

I don't hate this play since BB's stats suggest that he may be 3-betting a very wide range of hands here and pushing them all hard after the flop. However, you obviously don't want to do it too often so why not wait until you have some sort of draw to fall back on?

Also, there are many other ways to better exploit this type of opponent such as calling him down with a more showdownable hand.

Surfbullet

08-13-2005, 01:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I need more than a statistical read to do this. You might convince me that this was worthwhile with specific post-flop play reads, current table images / situation, etc., but without it it just looks like spewing to me. Is that a ruckus?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not my default play, it was a mix-it-up type play. I wouldn't ever try it against a 50/3 type player.

Surf

Surfbullet

08-13-2005, 02:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Surf,

I don't hate this play since BB's stats suggest that he may be 3-betting a very wide range of hands here and pushing them all hard after the flop. However, you obviously don't want to do it too often so why not wait until you have some sort of draw to fall back on?

Also, there are many other ways to better exploit this type of opponent such as calling him down with a more showdownable hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

His 3betting range was very wide. Ax+KT+QJ+ any PP maybe? possibly wider.

I don't do this often. Rarely would describe it best.

I am fond of letting this type of player bleed away chips with continuation bets - but this particular situation seemed that there was an opportunity to exploit his aggression in a different fashion.

Surf

Catt

08-13-2005, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am fond of letting this type of player bleed away chips with continuation bets - but this particular situation seemed that there was an opportunity to exploit his aggression in a different fashion.

[/ QUOTE ]

"This particular situation" may very well be a great time for it. It's just that we don't know enough about the situation. I'll do this often enough (I think), but I prefer to do it when I have something more to fall back on or I think raising the turn and folding to a reraise would be good for my table image; or betting the river and showing smoke will be good for my image. Put another way, I want to know that I am not throwing away bets -- that the chance of folding him is significant, and that when he doesn't fold I still have something valuable to show for my investment (an adjustment to current image).

Surfbullet

08-13-2005, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's fine. I do this sometimes too, since a raise on the flop gets no respect. The flat-call flop, raise turn looks more like a made hand. The real question is what was this guy's showdown % and what is your table image? I find that this move will work sometimes on TAGs or LAGs that respect aggression. Use sparingly, however, lest you get looked up every time you semibluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd pretty much been folding alot. I don't expect these guys to notice too much about my game, however.

Surf