Divorce/Separation/Postnup -- OOT crosspost

[bobdibble]

I figure that OOT and the Pshyc forums may both have good input...

My marriage is totally [censored].

I've been married for just under 7 years and have a 2 year old son. My wife has always had somewhat of a bitchy streak, but we had fun together.

Things started getting bad 4 or so years ago. I was in a busy job and put her through school.. while she was at school she ended up hooking up with a dude and having a 1 night afair... we almost got divorced right then, but decided to work through it... things were better for awhile.

We accidently had a kid after that. Things were great as we were working preparing for the baby. They were pretty good right after he was born as well.

But, over the last year and a half, things have become terrible between the two of us. We arguing and fighting, a lot. We haven't had sex in forever.

We started seeing a marriage counselor, and things were getting slightly better... but then, she had a breakdown, was comitted to a mental health hospital for a week and ended up being diagnosed with manic depression. This was a few months ago.

They are working on her meds, but when she lapses, she treats me like crap and constantly blames me for issues that she is failing to take control of in her life. She is fairly abusive in this regard.

I hate it.

It is my understanding that it takes 2 years for someone to get balanced and ajust their behavior after something like this, but I don't know if I can handle it. I also am concerned that after 2 years things won't be any different.

I'm on the edge of requesting a divorce or a separation, but then I think of my son... I live in Washington and am told that even if someone is a hard core drug user, parental rights are split, so he would be with her at least 50% of the time. Things would be fine now, but if as he gets older she treats him like she does me, it will [censored] him up. I feel that even if I made a decision that I should leave for myself, I couldn't do it because I would need to protect him.

There are a few financial matters to consider too though. Suppose I decide to stay for X years just to make sure he is ok.. but then want to get divorced.. I am going to take it in the ass financially. (Alimony is paid for half the number of years you are married... and the longer I am married, the more retirement/savings I am going to have to split)

So, the options I'm considering are:

1) Sticking with therapy and seeing how things work out.
2) Divorce
3) Postnup but continue to work on marriage issues -- split assets now and document in a postnup. Fix the number of years of alimony payment to 3.5 based on my current salary.
4) Postnup like above, but "separate" emotionally and live together to take care of our son. We would be legally married, but woulde effectively be roomates and could do whatever.

Any idea from people who have been through this kind of thing before?

Also, can anyone in Washington state recommend a good family lawyer?

Thanks

[pokerrookie]

[ QUOTE ]
I figure that OOT and the Pshyc forums may both have good input...

My marriage is totally [censored].

I've been married for just under 7 years and have a 2 year old son. My wife has always had somewhat of a bitchy streak, but we had fun together.

Things started getting bad 4 or so years ago. I was in a busy job and put her through school.. while she was at school she ended up hooking up with a dude and having a 1 night afair... we almost got divorced right then, but decided to work through it... things were better for awhile.

We accidently had a kid after that. Things were great as we were working preparing for the baby. They were pretty good right after he was born as well.

But, over the last year and a half, things have become terrible between the two of us. We arguing and fighting, a lot. We haven't had sex in forever.

We started seeing a marriage counselor, and things were getting slightly better... but then, she had a breakdown, was comitted to a mental health hospital for a week and ended up being diagnosed with manic depression. This was a few months ago.

They are working on her meds, but when she lapses, she treats me like crap and constantly blames me for issues that she is failing to take control of in her life. She is fairly abusive in this regard.

I hate it.

It is my understanding that it takes 2 years for someone to get balanced and ajust their behavior after something like this, but I don't know if I can handle it. I also am concerned that after 2 years things won't be any different.

I'm on the edge of requesting a divorce or a separation, but then I think of my son... I live in Washington and am told that even if someone is a hard core drug user, parental rights are split, so he would be with her at least 50% of the time. Things would be fine now, but if as he gets older she treats him like she does me, it will [censored] him up. I feel that even if I made a decision that I should leave for myself, I couldn't do it because I would need to protect him.

There are a few financial matters to consider too though. Suppose I decide to stay for X years just to make sure he is ok.. but then want to get divorced.. I am going to take it in the ass financially. (Alimony is paid for half the number of years you are married... and the longer I am married, the more retirement/savings I am going to have to split)

So, the options I'm considering are:

1) Sticking with therapy and seeing how things work out.
2) Divorce
3) Postnup but continue to work on marriage issues -- split assets now and document in a postnup. Fix the number of years of alimony payment to 3.5 based on my current salary.
4) Postnup like above, but "separate" emotionally and live together to take care of our son. We would be legally married, but woulde effectively be roomates and could do whatever.

Any idea from people who have been through this kind of thing before?

Also, can anyone in Washington state recommend a good family lawyer?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to hear this and I wish I had some advice. I would say to try and stick it out, but I have no idea what your situation is like. I also know that the "seven year itch" is a typical thing, but your circumstances seem more extreme than this. At any rate, the fact that you are placing your childs well being first means you'll make the right decision. Best of luck to you!

[David]

Been there-done that. Only you will know what to do when the time comes. One piece of advice......while you are going through this either play less or drop down in stakes. The things you are going through can kill your bankroll. You may think you have everything under control, but take the word of someone who has been there. Play less and drop down in stakes. Good luck, what your going through is tough.

[MicroBob]

This really sucks and I feel for you.

The fact that you have a son and some financial concerns on top of everything else really makes this decision hard. But I do think you need to consider yourself.
If you seperate your kid AND YOU will both find a way to survive.
I understand wanting to be there with him as much as possible just to be with him as well as protect him...but you have to consider also the long-term reprecussions of trying to stay in a fairly love-less marriage.


My parents basically did your 4th option when I was around 7 or 8. They slept in seperate rooms and mostly stayed out of each other's way.
Before that they had fought a lot but I really have a difficult time distinguishing between their 'real' fights and my own personal nightmares of them fighting (for a little while...I thought that every fight they had in the middle of the night was just some dream that wasn't going away when I woke-up).

They were both tolerated each other and would still go play Bridge in their local league and go out together, etc. But they still weren't sleeping in the same room together. It was kind of staying together 'for the kids' but also them just making excuses like 'my dad has to be up early for work...plus, he snores' etc etc.

Now...me and my sister DID turn out okay (reasonably speaking) but it is kind of weird.

Parents eventually divorced just 3 or 4 years ago (I'm 34 now) but still live in the same town in Florida and are still reasonably friendly. We all went out for dinner when I visited with my girlfriend recently.
But I think both are happier and less-stressed now. My Dad seems happy in his new relationship and my Mom seems stronger too.

25+ years of just 'sticking it out' (which isn't quite accurate...but is close enough) probably wasn't quite worth it.
Their intentions towards each other and the family and the kids were all good. But I knew at 12 years old or so that they probably should be divorced.
And both would probably have had much happier lives if they had done it earlier.



Way back when, my Mom's parents (my grandparents) divorced when she was about 8 or 10 I think.
Both re-married and both had great families and long and happy lives. My Mom was considered part of both families.
She has 3 half-siblings on her father's side and her step-mother truly considers her a daughter (and I consider her a grandmother).
My grandfather dies a couple years ago shortly after his 2nd marriage's 50th wedding anniversary.

Reason I bring this up is to point out that in a new relationship with a significant-other with an open-mind it doesn't have to be all tension-filled and weird to consider the son from your previous marriage as part of your new family too.


That's just some of my background.


I've been through a divorce of my own which wasn't quite as stressful or lousy as your situation (we both knew it was kind of over...and we didn't have any kids or anything) and even that was kind of tough.

Talk with friends (or counselor) and stay strong.
It will be a long and difficult road ahead that will not suddenly get better...but slowly things WILL improve in your life (regardless of your decision and what direction you go) and things will look good again.
I truly hope things work out for you.

[Al Schoonmaker]

I urge you to see a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist who does family practice. The typical marriage counselor does not have the training to deal with a person with severe bipolar disorder. The typical therapist does not have the training to deal with both husband and wife. You need someone with unusual training and experience.

A family lawyer is probably not the right person to see. Lawyers are professional adversaries. Their job is to fight for your interests. Of course, some lawyers are skilled compromisers, but far too many are just out to win.

And you're in a no win situation. Nobody is going to win, and the best you can hope for is to work out an amicable way to live together or to separate. If you can find a family lawyer with mediation skills, he or she MIGHT be helpful, but I think my first suggestion is more appropriate.

Good luck,

Al

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
A family lawyer is probably not the right person to see. Lawyers are professional adversaries. Their job is to fight for your interests. Of course, some lawyers are skilled compromisers, but far too many are just out to win.


[/ QUOTE ]
Al, I like most of your advice but not this. OP is afraid that his son is going to wind up in the custody of a mentally ill person who is "fairly abusive". He also fears losing his own financial future.

The only person who can help him understand his options for solving these problems is a good lawyer. He has a moral obligation to protect his son from abuse. As for ignoring the financial risk to himself, let's just say that's a worse EV play then all my poker mistakes combined.

A lawyer works for his client. He isn't going to war unless OP tells him to. The first thing the lawyer is going to do is explain the options and OP really needs that right now.

None of this precludes getting joint counseling with a mental health professional. It's not an either/or situation.

OP might also benefit from individual counseling. He has a lot to deal with right now and a professional might help him figure out what he wants or teach him methods for coping with his wife's illness/behavior.

PS: Bob, are you in danger? You don't specify what type of abuse you are facing. It is very common for women to physically abuse their mates and it sometimes leads to murder. Don't let misplaced shame or stupid stereotypes prevent you from taking care of yourself.

[bobdibble]

No, I am not in physical danger.. the abuse is emtional, and on a scale of 1-10, is probably only a 7.

I'm going to ask our marriage counselor about a specialist. I'm also going to see a lawyer about legal options.

It sounds like no one has ever gone through a post-nup here. To be honest, that is one of the more appealing options to me as it seems that it would keep the financial issue from escalating over time while allowing me to see if the issues w/my wife can be resolved.

[BritNewbie]

I wish there was one single, simple piece of advice that I could give you, which would sort all of this out, but we both know that life's a bit more complicated than that.

I have no particular experience or expertise with this sort of thing, other than the fact that a few years ago my wife and I went through what might be described as a 'difficult patch' (although our difficulties were nothing compared to what you're coping with.) I almost allowed it to destroy our marriage. For a while we were separated, but eventually got back together, worked on stuff, and these days are happier than we've ever been.

I certainly think you could do with some professional help. If you can afford it, legal advice as well as clinical advice is probably a good idea.

In a situation fraught with uncertainty, one thing's for definite: your son is lucky to have a father so committed to that boy's welfare. There are way too many guys for whom that would be a long way down the list of priorities.

I wish you Peace and Happiness.

[Dave H.]

I don't see how a post nuptial agreement could hurt unless it puts her into a rage that makes matters worse. Only you can judge that. If you DON'T think it would worsen your relationship then, by all means, pursue that option outside of the other options. I'm certain that, if you can come to an agreement beforehand, you wouldn't be looking at much money to have an attorney put it together.