is my overpocket good?

[Newt_Buggs]

***** Hand History for Game 2513086353 *****
50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14724786) - Wed Aug 10 20:22:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 14660 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: FlushMofo (1575)
Seat 3: NYBROKER (1240)
Seat 5: rla73 (2435)
Seat 6: oo3NT (2030)
Seat 7: makhar (810)
Seat 8: NewtBuggs (925)
Seat 9: Yossarian333 (985)
makhar posts small blind (25)
NewtBuggs posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NewtBuggs [ Jh, Jd ]
Yossarian333 raises (150) to 150
FlushMofo folds.
NYBROKER folds.
rla73 folds.
oo3NT folds.
makhar folds.
NewtBuggs calls (100)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4c, 3h, 2h ]
NewtBuggs checks.
Yossarian333 bets (175)

$109, no reads on villain
This seems like a relatively common situation, so I figured that it would be good to post a hand for it.

[citanul]

not that this would make the situation MUCH easier, but wouldn't leading out make it at least a little easier?

if you're just going to play this for set value, then check fold, go nuts, or just fold preflop, since you're paying too much for a set. (j/k) but i think that calling and then trying to figure out where you are is awkward.

what i've been doing in too many spots here is check calling the flop, examining the turn, and sometimes either betting out, checkraising, check folding, or check calling again.

[pokerlaw]

granted I dont play the 109s, but I feel that a lot of the time you are dealing with a continuation bet/steal attempt or a lower pocket pair.

FWIW, I raise here PF usually and I bet this flop if I don't w no read. If villain is LAG, a checkraise seems good.

[Nottom]

You have absolutely no way to know do you?

I would bet out pretty much everytime on this flop, giving 10 out hands a chance to take a free card is bad and you really don't have enough chips to test if you overpair is good. You could conceiveably CR to 400 or so and fold to a push but your getting in pretty ugly situations when you do that.

[Newt_Buggs]

My problem with this hand is that it seems like my cards don't even matter. If I lead out, he fold most of the things that are behind and raises most of the things that are ahead. Checking gives him a chance to catch 10 possible outs which is really bad, but at least I know where I stand for no extra investment if he does check behind.

I did consider folding pf btw

I think that I'm now leaning towards leading out on this flop like you guys suggested. I'm assuming that everyone is folding to a raise, and pushing if called and a blank hits on the turn?

[Unarmed]

You played it fine.
All-in baby. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

PS I don't lead this flop because if Villain's raise range includes 99, TT, you can end up laying down the best hand way too often. Also, board is two flush so he can get froggy with AKh. Anyway, def check the flop. Pushing the flop or call/pushing the turn are your options after that.

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, board is two flush so he can get froggy with AKh.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not sure what "get froggy" means but AKh is 60/40 against a significant portion of Hero's likely pre-flop calling range (99-QQ) is and is still ahead of KK.

If I have AKh I am making a disguised continuation bet here pretty often.

[psyduck]

Yossarian is a 2+2er right?

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, board is two flush so he can get froggy with AKh.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not sure what "get froggy" means but AKh is 60/40 against a significant portion of Hero's likely pre-flop calling range (99-QQ) is and is still ahead of KK.

If I have AKh I am making a disguised continuation bet here pretty often.

[/ QUOTE ]

vin,

Not sure what you're getting at here. I was referring to the possibility that hero will get raised off a better hand after leading the flop.

[citanul]

u,

what about all the pushes over hero's bet he's going to see with 99-AA, as well as AK, AQ, AJ, and some other crap?

I think that betting out is bad if you intend to fold to an un-named opponent.

citanul

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
***** Hand History for Game 2513086353 *****
50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14724786) - Wed Aug 10 20:22:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 14660 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: FlushMofo (1575)
Seat 3: NYBROKER (1240)
Seat 5: rla73 (2435)
Seat 6: oo3NT (2030)
Seat 7: makhar (810)
Seat 8: NewtBuggs (925)
Seat 9: Yossarian333 (985)
makhar posts small blind (25)
NewtBuggs posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NewtBuggs [ Jh, Jd ]
Yossarian333 raises (150) to 150
FlushMofo folds.
NYBROKER folds.
rla73 folds.
oo3NT folds.
makhar folds.
NewtBuggs calls (100)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4c, 3h, 2h ]
NewtBuggs checks.
Yossarian333 bets (175)

$109, no reads on villain
This seems like a relatively common situation, so I figured that it would be good to post a hand for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

50/100? seems like the blinds are 25/50? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

if the former, push.

if the latter, then i would put him on a continuation bet. i'm thinking my overpair is good, and i want to extract more $ from him.

i'd min check/raise on flop. then all-in on turn if non-scare card came out.

(unfortunately, this is party poker. he'll call with a flush draw, and catch that miracle river card more often than the 1 to 4 for flush draws. /images/graemlins/frown.gif )

so what did he have?

Low Buyin Player here**

You should probably put him on a range pf.

If you believe he has AA-QQ, your playing for set value. In which case the pf raise is too big to call. Fold pf(your out of position too)

If you believe he's doing this with any thing less, than I think a check/push is in order seeing how no overcards came.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
Yossarian is a 2+2er right?

[/ QUOTE ]
god, I hope not

***** Hand History for Game 2513086353 *****
50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14724786) - Wed Aug 10 20:22:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 14660 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: FlushMofo (1575)
Seat 3: NYBROKER (1240)
Seat 5: rla73 (2435)
Seat 6: oo3NT (2030)
Seat 7: makhar (810)
Seat 8: NewtBuggs (925)
Seat 9: Yossarian333 (985)
makhar posts small blind (25)
NewtBuggs posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NewtBuggs [ Jh, Jd ]
Yossarian333 raises (150) to 150
FlushMofo folds.
NYBROKER folds.
rla73 folds.
oo3NT folds.
makhar folds.
NewtBuggs calls (100)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4c, 3h, 2h ]
NewtBuggs checks.
Yossarian333 bets (175)
NewtBuggs raises (775) to 775
NewtBuggs is all-In.
Yossarian333 calls (600)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2d ]
Creating Main Pot with $1875 with NewtBuggs
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1875 |
Board: [ 4c 3h 2h 4s 2d ]
FlushMofo balance 1575, didn't bet (folded)
NYBROKER balance 1240, didn't bet (folded)
rla73 balance 2435, didn't bet (folded)
oo3NT balance 2030, didn't bet (folded)
makhar balance 785, lost 25 (folded)
NewtBuggs balance 1875, bet 925, collected 1875, net +950 [ Jh Jd ] [ two pairs, jacks and fours -- Jh,Jd,4c,4s,3h ]
Yossarian333 balance 60, lost 925 [ Ah Jc ] [ two pairs, fours and twos -- Ah,4c,4s,2h,2d ]

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
u,

what about all the pushes over hero's bet he's going to see with 99-AA, as well as AK, AQ, AJ, and some other crap?

I think that betting out is bad if you intend to fold to an un-named opponent.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure we're arguing the same thing cit. I agree betting out is bad and would C/R this flop all-in.

[citanul]

okee doke.

yeah, i do different things depending on different opponents. there's lots of donks who will not call the cr all in but will push all in with a bluff. there's also lots of donks who will call the cr all in but will just toss their hand if bet into and they miss. weird [censored].

citanul

[psyduck]

I have played with Yossarian before, and the half pot continuation bet on the flop leads me to believe that he has AK or AQ here. He would bet more strongly with QQ upwards.

I think this is a check-raise push on the flop. If he bet something like T250, I think this might be a fold.

Edit: just as I thought (saw the results). His call is baffling though, I guess he's not as solid as I thought he was.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
u,

what about all the pushes over hero's bet he's going to see with 99-AA, as well as AK, AQ, AJ, and some other crap?

I think that betting out is bad if you intend to fold to an un-named opponent.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

while i love your position of inducing someone to bluff, i dont think it works well if you dont know if you are ahead/behind which newt clearly is as demonstrated by this post.