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View Full Version : pot odds pre flop vs play after flop


08-12-2005, 03:22 PM
If you are given the correct pot odds pre flop from the SB to limp in (say 5-1 pot odds or better)...

1) do you call ANY hand or "better" hands
2) if you miss the flop completely, do you check and fold
to any bet??
3) do you probe bet if you catch a piece of the flop (2nd
or 3rd pair) and fold to a raise.

I feel like i should be folding crap because i end up folding them anyway when i miss the flop.

08-12-2005, 06:23 PM
1.) with over 5-1 out of the small blind.. yea I'd basically call anything that has a shred of hope

2.) Of course.. no point playing rags when you miss the flop and there are a few players behind you who have probably hit it in some way

3.) I don't probe bet with more than 2 people in the pot and first to act..2nd or 3rd pair with 4 other people is usually worthless, odds are someone hit something when it's almost a family pot .. check/fold is fine, you don't have to win every hand you're involved in

pzhon
08-13-2005, 01:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If you are given the correct pot odds pre flop from the SB to limp in (say 5-1 pot odds or better)...

1) do you call ANY hand or "better" hands
...
I feel like i should be folding crap because i end up folding them anyway when i miss the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, you should fold your garbage in the small blind.

It is a common misconception that it is favorable for garbage to be getting "great pot odds." If you have one opponent, better odds are always good. Here, the opposite is true. You are getting "great pot odds" because several people have limped, probably with half-decent hands. You don't have to beat just one opponent; you have to beat several, which is very hard to do with garbage. Flopping a pair no longer makes your hand playable because it is quite unlikely that a low pair will stand up in a multiway pot. That several people limped in may make it much more clear not to complete.

PokerRoom's stats (http://www.pokerroom.com/games/evstats/pairStats.php) show that many hands lose more from the small blind than the small blind itself (0.17-0.25 BB). For example, A2o loses 0.35 BB/hand at a 10-player $1-$2 table. T2o loses 0.4 BB/hand. 53o loses 0.31 BB/hand. On average, players on PokerRoom would be better off folding these hands from the small blind.

By the way, it is pretty clear from PokerRoom's stats that these hands do better when there are fewer players at the table. That means fewer multiway pots, and fewer chances to make a bad call due to "great pot odds."

By the way, I believe some garbage hands with straight potential like 53o are worth completing in NL if the stacks and game type mean you can get paid off, and it is unlikely that the big blind will raise. The implied odds are much less significant in limit.