live 22 hand flops a set, flush and straight draws on board

[BBD]

This is my first post. 5/10 game that's loose and good at my local casino in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I am one off the button in a full ring. SB I've played before and is pretty much a rock. UTG+2 is new to me, but plays almost every hand he's dealt and calls all the way down. He's shown down some very ragged 2 pair and trips. MP has just joined the game.

BBD is dealt 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

utg folds.utg+1 folds.utg+2 calls.mp calls.mp+1 calls.mp+2 calls.BBD calls.button folds.SB calls.BB checks.

7 to the flop, pot is 7 SB.

Q /images/graemlins/club.gif10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB bets.BB folds.utg+2 calls.mp calls.mp+1 folds.mp+2 calls.BBD raises.SB calls.utg+2 calls.mp calls.mp+2 folds.

So my thoughts at the time were simply to make Villians pay to draw, and to take control of this pot. I am a bit concerned about a bigger set being out, as many players in this game do not raise QQ or 1010 PF. That being said I think if those hands were out the Villian holding them would certainly 3 bet my bump, what with the board being so draw plenty. So my questions are these: any one PF raise 22 with position and lots of callers? any one waiting till 4th street to raise this set? what's your line if a /images/graemlins/spade.gif falls on 4th street, that doesn't pair the board? what if a J/K/A falls on 4th?

one more thing I will add is I had been raising most of my top pair/good draws/overpairs on the flop thus far in this game, so it would be easy for villians to put me on a weaker holding like AQ/KQ KJ or Q10s.

4th and 5th streets to come...

[BBD]

Nobody wants to through their two cents in?

[BigEndian]

Nice game selection.

I'm not at all concerned about a higher set. I bet/raise 4th street regardless of what falls. If it's 3-bet by a passive player, I consider slowing down. But if there's 4+ players in the hand I go to war and cap if given the opportunity even against a passive player.

Raising with 22 in your spot PF is fine. A lot of people use it if there are a lot of caller and the action is passive to get 4 shots at their set instead of three on the flop (i.e. check through on a whiff and most boards to see if you spike on the turn).

In general though, I don't think this is a very interesting hand. You have a very strong holding and if the traight or flush comes on the turn, you have a huge number of outs to redraw to. Add to that the tremendous overlay this table is offering (again, great table selection) and it's pretty much impossible to play a set wrong unless you don't bet it.

- Jim

[BBD]

Thanks for your comments BE.
Yeah 5-10 at Casino Nova Scotia is definatly, hands down, the best game I've played in. Been playing there once a week for the past month or so and am up 80+ BB.
I momentarily considered just a call on the flop, with the intention of moving in on the turn, but decided to pop it right away since anyone holding a pair, spades, a J, or any overcards would pay off anyways.(guys call 2 bets all the time in this game w/ as little as small flush/straight)
I totally agree with your comments and certainly was ready to go to war if 3 bet by anyone. And yes again, I was bet/raising 4th street reguardless.
Thanks again for responding.

[thejameser]

you have the best draw and a strong made hand. play it as such.

[BBD]

Aye!Aye! did do and will do in the future, reguardless of how this hand played out. thanks for your comment james.

[callmedonnie]

First of all, don't be too worried about a better set. That is quite rare. Now for your questions:

No, I don't raise twos in that position because you won't force anyone out, and with that many players you are likely to have no better than 3rd best hand after the flop w/ two outs. Basically, it is too vulnerable, has no value, and my play is to limp and fold unless for some reason I hit my draw or am open ended.

Remember, you have more outs to quads or a boat than anyone has to a spade. I bet a spade and call a raise. You can't risk a free card. If sb bets I would just call, because I don't want rock 3 betting. If c/r by sb, you must call.

A Jack isn't all that scary because I expect AK to get raised. But if they won't PF raise queens, they prob won't raise AK. You can't get afraid every time a card comes that fills a straight. With this many opponents be more scared, but you have a real strong hand.

Advice on those cards is going to depend on who plays back at you.

Typically I bet turn, call raise if one of those cards comes hoping to hit one of my ten outs. But I don't check.

[BBD]

thanks for your insight donnie. I do see monsters under the bed sometimes, but I am aware it's important not to fear the cinch. Playing scared will cost me a ton of value in the long run.
I am certain rock would not have led the flop with anything less than AQ, KQ or 2 big spades(also certain he would have played for a c/r with the cinches we've been discussing) Also rock certainly would have raised QQ or AK, even from the SB.
btw- you're right many players in this game don't raise AK, from any position.
UTG+2, from my observations that night, NEVER raises PF. Infact, I don't think I'd seen him bump a bet once all night.And we all know even horrible players do get dealt nice hands sometimes.
So thanks again for your advise, I found it very helpful.

[BBD]

So 4 runners to the turn, pot is 8 BB.

Q /images/graemlins/club.gif10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif turn is Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

sb bets.utg+2 calls.mp calls.BBD raises.sb folds.utg+2 calls.mp calls.

my feeling at the time was that sb would fold if I was strong again, and if sb 3bet then I was likely beat, but would definatly call down. no great surprize the calling station utg+2 is calling down again. I am a bit concerned about the unknown, albeit I'm only behind Q10 or 1010.(Q2 and QQ both seem extreamly unlikely) callmedonnie, in his reply to the original post, advised not raising SB if he bet out again. I believe that to be sound advice but at the time I was most worried about SB and wanted him out, and if that didn't happen then I wanted to know better where I stood. Do you folks like this line?