PDA

View Full Version : Doubts about "Mastering No Limit Hold'em"


John Biggs
08-12-2005, 02:10 PM
I picked this up with some anticipation but am now developing doubts.

From Chapter One alone, here are things that clearly seem to be mistakes:

- p. 17, the authors suggest that with a small stack, "You are more likely to be a target of the big stacks - in general, they will try to bet you off hands."

In my experience this is flat wrong. You're only in trouble here if you play loosely and passively. As compared to this, I think Ed Miller has it right in the no-limit chapter of his beginners' book - a short stack deprives big stacks of the implied odds they would need to get fancy against you; therefore they will spend less time attacking you, not more.

- p. 18, again talking about short stack strategy - "A second strategy that can be used is to play some very marginal hands in late position when there are a large number of callers hoping to hit the flop." The authors go on to give the example of calling a $7 early position raise in a $2/$3 game when you in the cut-off have a $60 stack and hold 97 off, and four players before you have already called the raise. They reason that "If you hit the flop you can win a large pot."

Yes, but how often are you going to hit that flop? That raise is a huge percentage of your stack. Their related reasoning is that in this particular game you can rebuy when you hit $50 - they seem to think this justifies draining off chips as quick as you can to reach that point.. That doesn't seem a good enough excuse to me, unless you really don't care how much you lose in the early going.

- p. 21, under the heading "Big Stack as a Weapon," the authors describe a play in which a large stack raises in late position with 99 vs. two short-stacked limpers; both limpers call. The flop comes Ace-high, the first limper checks, and the second underbets the pot with what might be a feeler bet, committing about a fifth of his remaining stack. Our hero reraises all-in baased on a thought process that rules out either of his limping opponents having a big Ace, plus he's figuring that even if he gets called he has a redraw if he can turn or river a set. The authors further note that our hero knows noting about either of his opponents yet, as they both recently sat down.

This advice seems like a good way to blow off chips from your large stack, if that's what you want to do versus players with whom you're not familiar but who are likely to err on the loose side rather than the tight side, given that it's a small game. And the notion that you have an effective redraw here seems little better than a fantasy.

I read a few more chapters and the book didn't seem to get any better. Compared to HOH or the Reuben/Ciaffone book, this book seems likely to get you in trouble. Heck, it's not even as good as Doyle's advice in SS I.

Anyone make it through the whole book?

punter11235
08-12-2005, 05:27 PM
I started a thread about this book some time ago, try to use search function. Many people expressed their opinion about the book there.
Mine is that this book and most of the advice there is pretty useless. Additionaly some is just plane wrong.

Best wishes

joewatch
08-12-2005, 07:27 PM
I read this book when it first came out and overall I thought the advice was solid. Mostly because most of the advice is stated this way: you should usually do X, but sometimes Y, and sometimes Z. There are many winning NLHE styles, and all of them work in the right conditions.

Many people criticize Brunson's SS1/SS2 NLHE chapter saying it only works with big-stack high-stakes cash games. Well, I can tell you, I got a lot of great ideas from the chapter that greatly increased my winrate.

I can't say that I got anything new from Mastering NLHE, but I would recommend this book easily to any beginning NLHE player or limit player interested in getting into NLHE. I don't think there is any other book out there that covers the different facets of small-stakes NLHE as well as this does.

I'm sure all of the experienced NLHE cash players are anxiously awaiting the Miller/Sklansky book.

SNOWBALL138
08-13-2005, 01:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I can't say that I got anything new from Mastering NLHE, but I would recommend this book easily to any beginning NLHE player or limit player interested in getting into NLHE. I don't think there is any other book out there that covers the different facets of small-stakes NLHE as well as this does.


[/ QUOTE ]


I'm sorry. I missed the point in your post where you explained why a leak as big as calling 97o here won't cause you to lose all your money.

Cooker
08-13-2005, 03:08 AM
I have read the entire strategy part, but not the money management stuff at the end. I have similar feelings as you do. I posted specfically in another thread that the discussion of stack size was incomplete and incorrect in my opinion (they don't discuss the merits of short vs. large buy in and they simply say large is better for reasons that make no sense). The truth is that a small stack is an inherent advantage, so if all people are about the same in skill, you will be a winner simply by buying in shorter. However, if you are much better than your opponents, you should try to have them all covered if possible.

The strategy section seemed to me to be as simple as "if you get all in, don't have top pair, be able to beat top pair." This isn't terrible advice, in games with weaker players, you are often hoping to make big scores against them. Especially against a recent limit convert, because at limit you make your money with TPTK, in NL you make your money against TPTK.

I agree that 97o is a questionable hand to take in against a raise. Still, with deep stacks weaker hands like suited connectors and mid to small pairs go way up in value because of the money to be made when you hit, but you can't play these against small stacks which is not properly emphasized.

I find this book to be more a beginners guide (so the title is poor), but with a little too much questionable information for a true recommendation. Still, I don't know if you would be a total loser if you use the advice.

Mr Mojo Risin
08-14-2005, 04:40 AM
Horrible book. I tried reading it. About 4 chapters in I said to myself "This isn't worth your time, go beat off." Jerking off helped my poker game more than this craptastic book.

Trix
08-14-2005, 02:14 PM
I read it and hated it. Itīs the most boring pokerbook Iīve read and it just keep repeating the same things over and over again.
On top of that most of the hands are from a weird structured game when they say focus is on fixed buyin games. Usually all those are 100BB buyins, atleast online.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone make it through the whole book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, dont waste your time.

Piper Tim
08-15-2005, 08:56 AM
I read it. I don't think it is terrible book. It did give me some information about NLHE. I found the section on NLHE in GSHE to be better, at least for how I play. Some of the concepts like betting and position were fine, but I didn't get the really deatailed analysis that I like. I wouldn't call it a waste of time and I did take information out of it. Then again, I am new to poker and newer to NLHE.

I think the biggest flaw of the book is that it tries so hard to be cute or profound. Citing the classic movie Star Trek Wrath of Khan to introduce position, the Rule of 13, Matrix theory, and so forth. At times it really felt like the authors gave a half-hearted attempt to create the definitive book on NLHE.