66 flop play. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Jeff W

08-12-2005, 02:08 PM

UTG raiser leans toward the passive side: 37/6/1.0 over 100 hands. MP2 is laggy 31/11/2.1 over 100 hands.

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Party Poker Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Jeff is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, 4 folds, Jeff calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Jeff checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Jeff raises.

Redd

08-12-2005, 02:11 PM

Looks like a great time for this play. I like it.

PSW

08-12-2005, 02:25 PM

help me out here... I would have folded when it got to me and I needed to call 2 cold to stay in, with the threat of a cap coming...

THanks

psw

TheDelChop

08-12-2005, 02:27 PM

Why is this a good spot to raise? Either we are way behind to an 8 or a 2 or we are pretty well far ahead if he is bluffing. So if we raise and he is bluffing he probably peels one and if he doesn't suck out on us folds the turn, or he raises us and we are putting money in with 2 outs. I think you can find a better place for a raise then right here.

Entity

08-12-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is this a good spot to raise? Either we are way behind to an 8 or a 2 or we are pretty well far ahead if he is bluffing. So if we raise and he is bluffing he probably peels one and if he doesn't suck out on us folds the turn, or he raises us and we are putting money in with 2 outs. I think you can find a better place for a raise then right here.

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The pot is big, UTG has overs that we'd like to fold out, and MP2 very likely has overs as well (he doesn't have an 8 or a 2 here). It's a good time to try to get HU with a LAG.

Rob

cassady

08-12-2005, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG raiser leans toward the passive side: 37/6/1.0 over 100 hands. MP2 is laggy 31/11/2.1 over 100 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
Party Poker Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Jeff is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, 4 folds, Jeff calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Jeff checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Jeff raises.

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I don't like calling two bets cold OOP with low pockets.

If you REALLY want to isolate the lag, cap it preflop to try and lose UTG. But I don't like this play much either.

Just fold it.

TheDelChop

08-12-2005, 02:33 PM

Very true, I really have to pay more attention to pre-flop action when I read these damn hands. Well played, but I assume we are peeling/folding if we get 3-bet?

Jeff W

08-12-2005, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
help me out here... I would have folded when it got to me and I needed to call 2 cold to stay in, with the threat of a cap coming...

[/ QUOTE ]

7.5:1 odds to flop a set.

I get 10.5:2 immediate odds, in which case I have to win 2.25 BB post flop to break-even.

Worst case is 13.5:3, in which case I must earn 4.5 BB post flop to break-even.

sy_or_bust

08-12-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like calling two bets cold OOP with low pockets.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should. Implied odds make this a profitable spot from the BB for simple set value, and finding spots like this one where you can potentially outplay the field and take the pot down UI is even better.

BWebb

08-12-2005, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
help me out here... I would have folded when it got to me and I needed to call 2 cold to stay in, with the threat of a cap coming...

[/ QUOTE ]

7.5:1 odds to flop a set.

I get 10.5:2 immediate odds, in which case I have to win 2.25 BB post flop to break-even.

Worst case is 13.5:3, in which case I must earn 4.5 BB post flop to break-even.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't seem right. First, you are assuming you will win every time you flop a set. But, more importantly, since you are risking 2 sbs preflop, don't you need to win 4.5 big bets postflop? Calling 1 bet preflop and calling 2 bets preflop do not have the same implied odds. I need to read TOP tonight because I used to know this for sure. Now I am a little confused.

hicherbie

08-12-2005, 03:08 PM

given your reads, i like the flop line.

HolyBejeesus

08-12-2005, 03:08 PM

Preflop is good. This is even better. Nothing like taking down a big pot with 66 UI (hopefully).

callmedonnie

08-12-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG raiser leans toward the passive side: 37/6/1.0 over 100 hands. MP2 is laggy 31/11/2.1 over 100 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
Party Poker Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Jeff is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, 4 folds, Jeff calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Jeff checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Jeff raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like calling two bets cold OOP with low pockets.

If you REALLY want to isolate the lag, cap it preflop to try and lose UTG. But I don't like this play much either.

Just fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you will lose UTG ever PF.

BWebb

08-12-2005, 03:19 PM

I think I figured out where my mistake was. You are talking big bets instead of small bets, right?

JerseyTom

08-12-2005, 03:21 PM

I don't care how LAGgy MP2 is... I fold this PF.

Given that you called, I like the flop C/R to try and fold out overs.

Tom

CCovington

08-12-2005, 03:30 PM

Given your reads, I think the call preflop is not too bad, I would probably fold it, but if you don't I like your line on the flop, you need to CR this to try to find out if you are up against a bigger pair, and/or get overs to fold.

Jeff W

08-12-2005, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care how LAGgy MP2 is... I fold this PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding pre flop is simply wrong. I provided calculations. I have to win only a modest amount post flop when I hit my set to justify a call. I will easily win more than my fair share even after we take into account the chances my set will be outdrawn.

Entity

08-12-2005, 04:14 PM

Meh. Stop nitting on preflop everyone. It's not a big deal. I think it's a profitable call in the hands of most semidecent players postflop.

Jeff, let's see some action beyond the flop cuz the hand seems normal so far.

Rob