TT - Should this have been a hard decision?

I had just made a loose call to double up with TP2K (KJ)when I sucked out on an All-in who had 2-pair (J8) when there was a flush draw on that flop and a small pot. I had just started changing my style to try to gamble in close situations early to accumulate.

The villian in this pot had bet aggressively in one other hand (open raised 3x, then pot size on the flop to win--not against me).

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t770)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t770)
MP3 (t775)
Hero (t1680)
Button (t725)
SB (t695)
BB (t800)
UTG (t785)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t85</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t85, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: (t222.50) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t200</font>, Hero....

gl,
Mike.

[EnderFFX]

Fold pre-flop.
Fold flop.

You are making another loose call by calling a raise with two limpers already in the pot. You do have the chips to throw around because you doubled up, but now you are playing your hand for set value. The villian has either a high PP, or AK. If he has a high PP you are drawing to two outs, if he has AK without a diamond he is drawing to 6 outs, if there is a diamond in his hand he is drawing to 13 outs.

The 200 bet post flop, indicates to me that he wants you to stay around and lose more money. He may have a high PP with a diamond. Which would mean you are drawing to one out.

[Maulik]

You can muck PF, but since you have lots of chips here is what's going to happen.

either you're going to stack him or he's going to 2x through you if he's got an over pair to the flop too.

either way on the flop, just muck it because again he could have an over pair or broadways w/ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and you're a dawg. ~54/46

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold pre-flop.
Fold flop.

You are making another loose call by calling a raise with two limpers already in the pot. You do have the chips to throw around because you doubled up, but now you are playing your hand for set value. The villian has either a high PP, or AK. If he has a high PP you are drawing to two outs, if he has AK without a diamond he is drawing to 6 outs, if there is a diamond in his hand he is drawing to 13 outs.

The 200 bet post flop, indicates to me that he wants you to stay around and lose more money. He may have a high PP with a diamond. Which would mean you are drawing to one out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very weak-tight advice. "Villian has either a high PP or AK"??? Because he raised PF? You're giving low buyin SNG players WAY too much credit.

Why does the 200 bet on the flop "indicate he wants [him] to stay around"? It's nearly a full-pot sized bet! Not exactly come hither. Looks more to me like he's trying NOT to give odds to someone with one diamond, and simply trying to take down the pot.

I put Villian's range at AK-AJ, KQ, AA-88. I DO likely fold here on the flop because we're obviously way behind any higher PP, and we're only even money with any overcards with a diamond. The best case scenario -- overcards with no diamond -- just doesn't happen enough here for me to justify a call.

[schwza]

i think the call pre-flop is fine. you should fold on the flop. the only time you're ahead is if he has 2 non-diamond overs.

[Maulik]

and we're only even money with any overcards with a diamond.

you may want to plug this into Pokerstove. Just because we needs to catch a card to win doesn't mean he's behind.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
and we're only even money with any overcards with a diamond.

you may want to plug this into Pokerstove. Just because we needs to catch a card to win doesn't mean he's behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont understand. i said we were even money -- which we are, essentially. its around 50-50, maybe 55-45.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and we're only even money with any overcards with a diamond.

you may want to plug this into Pokerstove. Just because we needs to catch a card to win doesn't mean he's behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont understand. i said we were even money -- which we are, essentially. its around 50-50, maybe 55-45.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, its close, but this early in a tournament, I'd rather assess it as being behind or fwiw what it IS. don't mean to be nit picky then, clearly you realise this....

[EnderFFX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold pre-flop.
Fold flop.

You are making another loose call by calling a raise with two limpers already in the pot. You do have the chips to throw around because you doubled up, but now you are playing your hand for set value. The villian has either a high PP, or AK. If he has a high PP you are drawing to two outs, if he has AK without a diamond he is drawing to 6 outs, if there is a diamond in his hand he is drawing to 13 outs.

The 200 bet post flop, indicates to me that he wants you to stay around and lose more money. He may have a high PP with a diamond. Which would mean you are drawing to one out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very weak-tight advice. "Villian has either a high PP or AK"??? Because he raised PF? You're giving low buyin SNG players WAY too much credit.

Why does the 200 bet on the flop "indicate he wants [him] to stay around"? It's nearly a full-pot sized bet! Not exactly come hither. Looks more to me like he's trying NOT to give odds to someone with one diamond, and simply trying to take down the pot.

I put Villian's range at AK-AJ, KQ, AA-88. I DO likely fold here on the flop because we're obviously way behind any higher PP, and we're only even money with any overcards with a diamond. The best case scenario -- overcards with no diamond -- just doesn't happen enough here for me to justify a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

No this isn't weak-tight, this is just smart pre-flop/post-flop play. The villian has already seen our boy here get lucky last hand and considers him a loose player. Fine lets say I was giving the opponent too much credit, lets say he has AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, or QJ. Still the same boat. The majority of the chips in SnG are won in the later rounds. Our boy got lucky and made a nice double up. He has a loose image and a pile of chips, lets exploit that, play some tight poker, and get people to make some loose calls against him because they think he is loose.

I don't think I'm folding this pre-flop. I've got my sought after big stack and might be able to use it to my advantage this hand. I expected to be heads up when this gets to the flop. Now I fold to villian's show of strength or value bet it if I get a check and be done with the hand unless my only T /images/graemlins/heart.gif shows up, then I have some real decisions.

gl,
Mike.

Great advice, thanks.