River Phenomenon and playing like Bob T.

[Inthacup]

Recently Bob T. made a post about having position and allowing your opponent to bet out with a weaker hand. The strategy was to wait until the river to pop him with a raise. Here's a phenomenon that I've seen twice lately that I feel is noteworthy. I was in both of these hands, but on different sides of the fence.


Hand 1: Playing 5 10 online about a week ago. One bad player at the table, bets out with subpar hands, and has raised some pulses by hitting 2-3 outters on the river. I'm on the button w/ Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif . Everyone folds to me, I raise, bad player in BB calls.

Flop comes: 2 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif Q /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

BB bets out. Here I know BB is going to play this too aggressively, so I'm going to exploit his aggression and wait until later to raise. I call.

Turn: 3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

He bets, I call.

River: 10 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

He bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I call. He shows J /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif for the rivered flush.


Hand 2: 3-6 game online yesterday. This is my first hand at the table. I'm in BB w/ 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif . UTG limps, LP limps, I check.

Flop comes 9 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 10 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

I bet out, UTG calls, LP folds.

Turn: J /forums/images/icons/club.gif

I bet, UTG calls

River: 7 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

I bet, UTG raises, I 3-bet, UTG calls.

I show runner runner flush, he shows 99 for a flopped set.

Granted there was alot more to worry about on hand 2 than hand 1, the problem is the same. You have to be careful when waiting until the river to raise. Not adjusting midhand to different scenarios that may arise will certainly cost you big bets, as seen here.

[Bob T.]

The caveats are, you want to do this with 1 - Headsup, and 2 - with uncoordinated boards, 3 - sometimes you will miss bets.

Once the pot gets multiway, even three handed, I think that you want to play more aggressively almost all the time. If you raise in a headsup pot, and your opponent folds, the hand is over, in multiway pots, you have two opponents who might call, and given that the pot is multiway, it is already a little bit bigger, so there is more reward for just winning the pot if both opponents fold, and there is also better odds, so you may as well raise, and shorten the odds of the drawing hands.

On uncoordinated boards, even with a rainbow flop, 3/4 of the time, the board will be 2 suited after the turn, so you have to be prepared to change your plan then. If someone has a fourflush, you won't be able to make them fold, but you might be able to make them call an additional bet to see the river. The judgement here comes in what your opponent will do on the river if they miss their hand, if they will bet again, then it might be best to call the turn, and allow them to bluff again on the river. If they will checkfold when they miss, then you should raise the turn.

Finally, you flop a big hand, and your opponent flops a semibig hand, if you played aggressively early on, sometimes you would have gone multiple bets on the flop, and on the turn, but when you raise the river, it is likely to only go three bets when your opponent has a very, very big hand, so you might some bets.

I make a fair number of positional raises on or near the button, so when the board is two tone, for example, I would always raise my top set, or other big hand, and hope that my opponent will be clever enough to not allow me a 'free card'.

[Homer]

Hand 1: I wouldn't wait until the river to raise. If he is on a flush draw, he won't pay you off on the river, so collect on the turn. Also, the three on the turn might give him a gutshot with an Ace. I would definitely raise the turn and make him pay the maximum to see the river.

Hand 2: UTG was insane to wait until the river to raise. There are two flush draws and a straight draw out there. What the hell is he waiting for? I would probably raise the flop here, hoping that my opponent would either reraise or call and bet out on the turn, thinking that I was looking for a free card. Then I'd pop him again.

-- Homer

[Louie]

On neither of these two hands does it matter if Hero with the set raises on the flop, the turn, or the river: Villian is going to make the flush, and Hero loses almost the exact same amount either way.

There are two minor problems with this sort of slow-play [1] The opponent may stop betting but would have called you down if you raised the round before. You lose 1 bet. [2] The opponent doesn't have enough to call on the flop but then accidentally makes something (because you slow-played). Well, if he doesn't have enough to call then his equity is worth less than a bet, so failing to bet/raise yourself at most costs less then a bet.

The main benefit to this sort of slow-play is [1] it disguises your other weak calls [2] you get more money from someone who is MORE likely to keep betting than he is to call, especially if he'll keep bluffing to the river. [3] You may decide to NOT raise if the board gets scary, such as when the 3-flush comes.

- Louie