My late tourney steals / re steals are killing me. Need advice

[DVO]

I have always viewed my willingness to engage in the above behavior as an attribute. But it's become an albatross.

When it was working - and here I'm mostly referring to hammering someone from the blinds when they open raise from, say, the CO or button - I would rarely get called, or if I did, my 9Ts would draw out often enough to keep me alive and give me groovy meta-game benefits.

I miss those days. Here are two recent examples of the opposite:

1) I am in the BB with about 14X BB late in tourney. We're nearing the bubble. Folded to CO player who for the third time in as many orbits puts in a 3X bb raise in this situation. I push with T6 suited. He goes into the tank forever....and finally calls and turns over QQ. I'm out.

2) Same basic situation as above, but I have AJ suited in CO. I make it 3x BB. Obvious steal right? BB, who I have little info on, puts me all in. Thinking he's restealing, I call. He turns over AK.

On the surface these plays make me look like an idiot.
( Maybe I am.) In both cases I've thrown a couple of hours of really good play out the window, along with my chances of a good finish.

It's interesting that in both cases (and other such recent tragedies) both villains might not have considered the issue of thievery at all. In case 1, the guy seemingly never dreamed I was 're stealing' - he almost folded QQ. In case 2, I thought it very likely BB was re stealing, since my move looks so much like a steal. Wrong again. If I'm right about this, maybe it just means I've run into some bad luck and big hands at the wrong time...but I've also been called by 88 a couple of times too.

I know you guys are out there doing this with more success than me. Do I need to pick my targets better? How often do you put your tourney on the line with a massive resteal?

Final note the T6 hand was not my usual choice of cards, I usually would have suited connectors or some such hand that is unlikely to be dominated & has drawing possibilities.

Also, one other point, I try to do this against players whose names I don't recognize (in case they've caught my act by now), at least until I can change my screen name again.

Help. I don't want to give this tool up...

[betgo]

Both plays look fine. Bad luck.

[beetyjoose]

You're not an idiot. You're going to have to make a few of these moves to build a stack throughout the course of a tournament. Perhaps you're trying to do this too often, however I don't think that's the case.

I think you've been caught a few times and it is ruining your confidence. However, as a general rule of thumb, if I have no read, I give the benefit of the doubt to my opponet. i.e I assume he is not bluffing and then make my decision from there.

As far as the frequency of these types of moves, I would say it is very table dependent. I rarley like to put my entire stack on the line as bluf unless other players have seen me win big hands in a similar manner.

In your case, there's not much you can do because both players had big hands and your table image probably wasn't that big of a factor.

[Bill Kolter]

Follow David Sklansky's advice: don't raise if a re-raise would make you puke. By that he means, either raise with hands that can take the heat (and where you would welcome a re-raise) or hands that you don't mind tossing in the face of some resistance. A-J is not one of those hands: too weak to withstand a re-raise, but definitely worth seeing a flop with. If you raise with A-J and toss it in the face of a raise, it's no better than 7-2. So do it with 7-2.

If you're first to act, and re-raised, you can maybe put off your steal until the flop with a stop-n-go to provide a little variety. It's risky, but can be effective when you may be dominated and the board comes with rags.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Follow David Sklansky's advice: don't raise if a re-raise would make you puke. By that he means, either raise with hands that can take the heat (and where you would welcome a re-raise) or hands that you don't mind tossing in the face of some resistance. A-J is not one of those hands: too weak to withstand a re-raise, but definitely worth seeing a flop with. If you raise with A-J and toss it in the face of a raise, it's no better than 7-2. So do it with 7-2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don;t open raise with AJ in CO??????

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
Don;t open raise with AJ in CO??????

[/ QUOTE ]

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Follow David Sklansky's advice: don't raise if a re-raise would make you puke. By that he means, either raise with hands that can take the heat (and where you would welcome a re-raise) or hands that you don't mind tossing in the face of some resistance. A-J is not one of those hands: too weak to withstand a re-raise, but definitely worth seeing a flop with. If you raise with A-J and toss it in the face of a raise, it's no better than 7-2. So do it with 7-2.

If you're first to act, and re-raised, you can maybe put off your steal until the flop with a stop-n-go to provide a little variety. It's risky, but can be effective when you may be dominated and the board comes with rags

[/ QUOTE ]

He cannot be re-raised (and puke) after his PF action because he's re-raising all in from the blinds, he cannot be re-raised after he has acted.

To the OP, back luck, keep trying, just don't overdo it, keep picking your spots.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Bill Kolter]

Good point. I probably would open-raise with A-J in CO. I wouldn't consider this a "steal" move, but a pretty solid value bet. I would not, however, attempt a re-steal with it.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
Follow David Sklansky's advice: don't raise if a re-raise would make you puke. By that he means, either raise with hands that can take the heat (and where you would welcome a re-raise) or hands that you don't mind tossing in the face of some resistance. A-J is not one of those hands: too weak to withstand a re-raise, but definitely worth seeing a flop with. If you raise with A-J and toss it in the face of a raise, it's no better than 7-2. So do it with 7-2.



[/ QUOTE ]

You are really misinterpretting that section. I don't have TPfAP at work with me, or I would read it real qucik and clarify what he is saying, but if you are limping when folded to in the CO with AJ, you are making a mistake, especially when the blinds are high compared to stack sizes. (IIRC the idea was not reopening the action stupidly, and open raising in no way reopens the action since the only people who can act after you already can act after you.)

[Bill Kolter]

Granted. I was suggesting a situation where he open-raises with A-J, is re-raised and calls.

[Bill Kolter]

I agree. I guess I was giving some general guidance, and mis-used the concept in this situation. I would always open-raise with A-J in CO, but probably would not push PF in the face of a re-raise.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
1) I am in the BB with about 14X BB late in tourney. We're nearing the bubble. Folded to CO player who for the third time in as many orbits puts in a 3X bb raise in this situation. I push with T6 suited. He goes into the tank forever....and finally calls and turns over QQ. I'm out.


[/ QUOTE ]

I like the blind defense push with T6s. You need a late position raiser who is making loose raises and is willing to make a laydown. If villain had AK, you would have a 39% chance of winning the hand. When you consider pot odds, folding equity, and you are about a 3-2 dog against two overcards, the EV isn't bad. Plus you discourage attacks on your blinds. You are OK as long as villain doesn't have 66-AA, xT or x6. I wouyld much rather make the play with a suited connector or single gapper, where your odds are about 4% better.

This play is good against strong players, who are likely to fold and notice you are defending your blinds. Not a good idea against wild fishy players, who are likely to call with whatever junk they raised with.

A problem here is that you kind of need more chips to make this play work. Villain is getting good pot odds to call, and he may suspect you are restealing.