KQs in SB, early level limpfest

[TheSalche]

Was a raise here with KQs OOP good? Should I have flat called or raised more/less?
(20+2 Party)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t530)
MP1 (t745)
MP2 (t1020)
CO (t400)
Button (t530)
Hero (t1105)
BB (t1805)
UTG (t1865)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t30, CO calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls t70, UTG+1 calls t70, MP2 folds, CO folds.

[lastchance]

Raising to t100 in a pot of t180 preflop is generally a bad idea.

Big underbet. KQs really isn't that strong here. I complete and see a flop.

[Jman28]

I would limp.

If you are gonna raise, you have to raise to at least 130.

[psyduck]

complete.

when you raise to T100, I can see that you're bringing your ring game mentality into SNGs. by all means, raise KQs in the SB in a low-limit ring game, but KQ (suited or unsuited) isn't a raising hand this early in an SNG

[TheSalche]

okay, so lets say i do limp ... what if the board comes King or Queen xx unbroken, do i bet out 1/2 - 2/3 of the pot and be ready to fold to a lot of resistance?

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
okay, so lets say i do limp ... what if the board comes King or Queen xx unbroken, do i bet out 1/2 - 2/3 of the pot and be ready to fold to a lot of resistance?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, you check. You fold to a bunch of resistance, but to a single bet, normally you call/raise, planning to make a move on the turn or to get to showdown.

[SNOWBALL138]

Being in the SB here, its very difficult to play this postflop. I doubt that anyone is folding for an extra t70 here. You are building a pot here with a weak hand, and you are first to act postflop.

If you are going to raise here, you should raise to at least 180.


Limping here is fine though. I think its a nice, default move.

I agree that limping is the standard play here. But I don't think a standard raise (3-5 bb plus extra because of the limpers) is wrong either. Actually I think limping could bring danger if a K or Q hits and someone else hits a strong draw.
A raise of 2 1/3 bb IS wrong though.

[Pete H]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that limping is the standard play here. But I don't think a standard raise (3-5 bb plus extra because of the limpers) is wrong either. Actually I think limping could bring danger if a K or Q hits and someone else hits a strong draw.
A raise of 2 1/3 bb IS wrong though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think raising is much more dangerous.

Let's say you make a proper raise (200+) and there's one caller.

Pot (~600)
Flop: K/Qxx (rainbow, no hearts)

You are first to act and you have 800-900 chips.

Options are:

Push
Bet 400 and call a push
Bet 400 and fold to a push (doesn't make any sense)
Check/fold (doesn't make any sense to raise preflop if you hit your pair and fold)
Check/push (or call if pushed), this would be my approach 'cos this gains some chips if the opponent is behind and if I raise preflop and flop K/Q I'm going to lose all my chips if I'm behind

I really hate to be in situations where I don't have enough chips to get information whether I'm behind or not.

Complete you must

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that limping is the standard play here. But I don't think a standard raise (3-5 bb plus extra because of the limpers) is wrong either. Actually I think limping could bring danger if a K or Q hits and someone else hits a strong draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nonsense.

[aaronk56]

If you limp it's easier to play after the flop, if you hit it and a Ace doesn't show you can make a substantial bet. If you miss it, you c/f. Raising makes it tougher because if you get a raggedy flop you're probably behind but not by much. I'd make a small bet 1/3 of the pot and fold to a re-raise.

[USCSigma1097]

What you need to do is FOLD.

You have KQ early on in a tourney with a whole squadron of limpers who you may have dominated or you might be crushed. You are going to miss the flop two thirds of the time, and the times that you do get a piece, you'll have no idea where you stand. You're out position with crappy hand. Fold and let the noobs kick each others teeth in.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
What you need to do is FOLD.

You have KQ early on in a tourney with a whole squadron of limpers who you may have dominated or you might be crushed. You are going to miss the flop two thirds of the time, and the times that you do get a piece, you'll have no idea where you stand. You're out position with crappy hand. Fold and let the noobs kick each others teeth in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold from the SB? It's t15 more and he has KQs. This isn't rocket science. Hero should complete and see the flop.

[USCSigma1097]

You forget that I am the weakest tighest player alive. I'm folding.

EDIT: I didn't see that he was suited. Ok, you call and see a flop.

KQ Offsuit, I'm folding.

[tigerite]

I don't see the harm in completing, but raising is utterly crap

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

KQ Offsuit, I'm folding.


[/ QUOTE ]

That is just insane. It's correct to complete much worst hands in this spot.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
You forget that I am the weakest tighest player alive. I'm folding.

EDIT: I didn't see that he was suited. Ok, you call and see a flop.

KQ Offsuit, I'm folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

ugh...

bottom line is this...raising anything less than the pot here is tantamount to a minraise. And a minraise from the SB with many limpers is about number 1 on my list for most boneheaded play in all of poker...no exceptions. No offense to the OP, but if you're gonna raise a hand from the SB with limpers behind, you HAVE to make it quite substantial.

KQs is a great hand with many in the pot already and for you to see a cheap flop with. I might even limp AK here, or raise to 250-300, but KQ, where I might not be best, god forbid someone limped AQ, I am going to merely complete.

As for folding this, or KQo, whatever...im sure its not going to make a huge difference to a bottom line, but its still a pussy move.

[lastchance]

You got to take your edges, and completing here with KQ has got to be an edge.

[USCSigma1097]

It might be a pussy move, but your mother is an astronaut.

Sigma

[psyduck]

?

I complete AKs and JJ here as well.