FUN WITH AK. what would you do?

[raptor517]

***** Hand History for Game 2517776318 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:14748483 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Thursday, August 11, 17:19:31 EDT 2005
Table Table 11469 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: horo11 ( $930 )
Seat 3: Lip_Balm ( $2095 )
Seat 5: rtarter ( $1500 )
Seat 6: bobgiveshead ( $745 )
Seat 7: scuba1127 ( $1045 )
Seat 8: dead_money2 ( $635 )
Seat 9: blairbaby ( $1560 )
Seat 10: RobFlush7 ( $1490 )
Trny:14748483 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Lip_Balm [ Kh As ]
bobgiveshead folds.
scuba1127 folds.
dead_money2 folds.
blairbaby folds.
rtarter: ouch
RobFlush7 calls [30].
horo11 calls [30].
Lip_Balm raises [110].
rtarter folds.
RobFlush7 raises [220].
horo11 folds.
Lip_Balm calls [125].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 6s, 8h ]
Lip_Balm checks.
RobFlush7 bets [100].
Lip_Balm raises [325].
RobFlush7 raises [600].
Lip_Balm ?

i played this hand a bit diff than i normally do with ak, but overall i liked it.. so now, what do YOU do? do you think you are beat and fold? do you think you are beat and push anyway? do you push thinking yer ahead? or would you have played it so different up to this point it doesnt matter. i dont include an option to call cuz hes clearly committed anyway. stop an going the river (so to speak) shouldnt be an option. what do you do?????

[pokerlaw]

maybe my nose is oversensitive, but i smell aces something fierce. I fold /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I call the flop bet and go from there, since the PF action and bet size is shady...though this line so far is definelty my second (and possibly better) choice.

[Matt R.]

I think he almost always has aces here. I fold.

[gumpzilla]

The limp weak reraise, followed by a weak flop bet and 3 bet when he's raised, really seems very likely to be AA. KK he could play this way too, here, but since that would mean he has the two case kings that's pretty unlikely. I'd be very surprised if he shows something worse than AK here - I don't think he's playing JJ, QQ or any other K this way. I think you can fold this.

EDIT: Given his preflop action, I probably prefer leading out to c/r'ing the flop, because I think you'll get out cheaper when you're raised. Your line does make a fold even clearer, though, so I don't dislike it.

[Shilly]

Any read on villain?

I think a decent player wouldn't open-limp in that late of position with AA or KK here, so any specific notes would be pretty helpful.

I think you might be seeing another AK here a lot of the time.

[valenzuela]

I push knowing Im behind, really.

[tricolore]

PF: Villain didn't originally raise but reraised you. Either he saw you as punishing two limpers and wanted to take it right then or has a monster. Second option seems more probable.

Flop: K on the flop. You bet, you raise and he reraises you. He has to figure that you at least have the king. Another hint pointing to AA (maybe KK, but...). You could think that he could also have AK, but I think he's raising PF with that hand.

So I fold. Times you are behind are probably outweighting significantely the times you're splitting or the times he's pulling a major bluff on you. And with 1500 chips left you still in a good position.

[Newt_Buggs]

yuk

Its tough because there are so many donkeys on party poker and you're pretty far in now. This still looks like a fold though.

[nWirb]

I think he has aces here, I push anyway.

[silencee]

if the players in the $55s are anything like the ones in the $33s, i push and laugh when his KQ/KJ hits the three outer on the river.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
if the players in the $55s are anything like the ones in the $33s, i push and laugh when his KQ/KJ hits the three outer on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
normally I would too, but every play that he has made so far screams AA. Don't get me wrong, I still think that you will sometimes see KQ,KJ but I don't think you will be seeing it 1/5 times or whatever to make this a profitable push.

[Pokerscott]

I'd fold.

Assuming either you are crushed or he is crushed, he needs to flip over crap about 1 times in 4 to make playing for the rest of his stack a good play.

The way he played it, it looks an awful lot like he has AA/KK. He has me convinced my AK is bad and I fold. If he was able to pull off that sequence with crap more power to him.

I can fold and still have a decent stack to play the end game (~1400) so I take my lumps and lay it down.

Of course in the heat of the game I might push lol.

Pokerscott

[jgunnip]

POOOSH, hit a king on the turn to beat his aces, duh.

[SCfuji]

hey raptor.

how did you double up to get your 2k stack? did you show down the rocks or suckout? i know this info might not be that crucial but its info for info sake.

i think it is safe to push here knowing you are ahead most of the time. if he has one of those few instances where he has aa or kk then that sucks but i think youll see ak here just as much not to mention the times you have the villain outkicked or slaughtered drawing to two outs after overplaying his/her under-big-pocket-pair.

[the_joker]

I think it's either a split pot or you're behind to AA, with AA being more likely, so I'd fold.

[Ryendal]

I would give him 65% to have AA or something like that, no ?

You have still 1500.
I would fold, even if I pushed like a maniac in the poll

[runner4life7]

I push and then am very results orrienated. If he had AA I am mad at myself. If I have him beat I think it was the right thing to do.

[Shilly]

Any results, Raptor?

[johnnybeef]

he has been making raises that are begging to be called this entire hand.....what do you think that means?

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
Any results, Raptor?

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought for a bit then folded. no need to call. if i call and loose im below 500, if i call and win i have a sizeable stack. if i fold i still have 1500. unnecessary risk to call when everything points towards being beaten. holla

[suited_ace]

I think it depends on your table image. How did you get those extra 1000 chips?

Also, you mentioned that this is not your standard play for AK. How do you normally play it in this spot?

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it depends on your table image. How did you get those extra 1000 chips?

Also, you mentioned that this is not your standard play for AK. How do you normally play it in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

i got it in with KK vs AT on a T73 board.

as for standard play.. im not exactly a standard person. i play a lot of hands differently sometimes, and just mix it up in general. sometimes (though rarely) ill just limp preflop. that gets ya in trouble though. in the 1k chip games i like to juice the hell out of ak. sometimes ill lead at the flop, sometimes ill check raise more.. etc. holla

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
I push and then am very results orrienated. If he had AA I am mad at myself. If I have him beat I think it was the right thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would be careful, this mind set might cause you some unecessary frustration. If you push here and end up being ahead 1/3 times you made the right play, but will more often then not end up being mad at yourself and judge that you made the wrong play.

[Unarmed]

I really don't like the flop raise rap, as it makes it impossible for Villain to make a mistake, but allows you to make a very bad one if you're chopping vs an aggro AK here. He'll fold his QQ/JJ, pop you back with AK, call/raise AA, and call KK. You're miles ahead or completely crushed so the raise is for information, which I generally don't like. Calling is almost as bad though, because then you're OOP and your reverse implied odds suck @ss because you have no idea where you are. You need to get to showdown and/or find out where you are as cheaply as possible, the question is how?

I generally just call the entire hand down and hope it doesn't get too expensive. This is probably bad. If we're committed to finding out where we are prior to the river you have to do so in such a way that will pacify AK. I don't think raising the flop does this. He's clearly probing or trying to induce a raise with the 100 bet. From his point of view, you don't need a heck of a lot to pop him back because his trick "worked". So your flop raise isn't all that powerful. I do think flat calling the flop and min C/Ring the turn slows down AK, but stacks are a touch short. How about flat calling the flop and leading the turn for half pot, folding to a raise. You're effectively pricing the streets yourself here. If you think he'll underbet the turn again then let him do it himself.

Can't you just call the flop, check the turn, and use your jedi mind tricks to find out where you are based on his bet? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[suited_ace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it depends on your table image. How did you get those extra 1000 chips?

[/ QUOTE ]

i got it in with KK vs AT on a T73 board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a fold, then. This guy won't be bluffing often enough to make the push a profitable play.

Pokerstove shocked me on this one:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 67.1061 % 37.56% 29.55% { KK+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 32.8939 % 03.35% 29.55% { AKs, AKo }

You tie 60% of the time. Probably still a fold. But am I the only one who's totally shocked by the 60%?

[good2cu]

I dunno at the 55s I see KQ, 99, etc. a lot here. Totally player dependent, but againest an unknown at the 55s I think this a call. I think your behind 50% of the time here againest a random 55er and unless you have a read the pot odds justify a cal.

[raptor517]

well unarmed.. i def see what yer saying.. however, i wanted to figure out where i was at.. and by making my raise on the flop, that gave me a good idea. 90% of people with AA there are going to 3 bet me so i dont catch up with some junker like KQ.

im not saying my line was best.. there is always another way and all.. but i rather liked it, and i think overall it saved me chips. holla