View Full Version : "We Don't Bet Each Other on the River..."
W. Deranged
08-11-2005, 03:45 PM
So I play in a live 10/20 "private" game which has a whole bunch of regulars. Everyone's played with everyone before, and I'm kind of the "new guy." (Not to mention many of the other players are old and I'm a college kid and so on and so forth...)
Many of the players, though, have weird arrangements where they don't bet at each other on the river. Some arrangements even involve giving certain opponents their river bets back if they called in a multiway pot and their compatriot won, or even basically shutting down the betting (and sometimes actually exposing their hands) as early as the turn. Players comment "I'm checking the turn with Aces" or "I'm on a draw" all the time when they are in pots with "friends." It is really, really strange. I once even saw a guy preemptively turn over his hand on the turn against another player who was not aware that such an agreement even existed. The player graciously stopped betting, but I would have been upset in his situation.
Now, this doesn't directly effect me because this doesn't happen in hands I'm involved in, but I was just wondering if others had seen similar behavior in live games in the past. What is deal? Why do people do this? Is this some sort of well-established poker courtesy or something?
I know when I play against my friends I play especially tough and especially tricky because we respect each other and want to demonstrate our best play.
dtbog
08-11-2005, 03:51 PM
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I know when I play against my friends I play especially tough and especially tricky because we respect each other and want to demonstrate our best play.
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Me too. I hate the idea of softplaying, especially in transparent view of the table.
One reason that this is lame is because it basically says "we're just here to take your money. nothing more." that sucks.
W. Deranged
08-11-2005, 03:53 PM
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I know when I play against my friends I play especially tough and especially tricky because we respect each other and want to demonstrate our best play.
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Me too. I hate the idea of softplaying, especially in transparent view of the table.
One reason that this is lame is because it basically says "we're just here to take your money. nothing more." that sucks.
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Though I am supremely confident that anyone who enters into such an agreement is not walking away from the table with my money in the long run...
Patrick del Poker Grande
08-11-2005, 03:55 PM
Old guys do this all the time. I hate it. It's borderline collusive. Try going to a small card room some time in the morning on a weekday and play with the good ol' boys. It's ridiculous.
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I hate the idea of softplaying, especially in transparent view of the table.
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It's a lot better for it it be in view than hidden. It sucks, but at least they're not trying to cheat you.
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borderline collusive
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It's not "borderline"; it's collusion, period. If this isn't collusion, what is? At least it's an open policy.
autobet
08-11-2005, 04:40 PM
It's not collusion, as they are not trying to cheat anyone. It does look very bad though, and in general is not good for the game. I am usually not going to play very long in these games.
For a lot of people it is a way of being social and friendly to their regualar opposition. Also, a lot of them are trying to minimize their variance since they don't have a lot of money. It's about being in action, so they can hang out in the cardroom as long as possible.
Homer
08-11-2005, 04:43 PM
What a bunch of pussies. Maybe everyone should turn their hand up preflop with the best hand taking the blinds. Then they wouldn't have to play any poker at all.
beetyjoose
08-11-2005, 04:46 PM
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What a bunch of pussies. Maybe everyone should turn their hand up preflop with the best hand taking the blinds.
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I think they should split the winnings though. It's only fair
They generally suck at Hold 'Em. Once you factor that, their lame softplaying makes sense.
KenProspero
08-11-2005, 04:54 PM
While we're at it, how about Jacks and 2s are wild, and DEFINATELY no check-raising.
UATrewqaz
08-11-2005, 04:56 PM
Poker for pussies.
ThomasPHoolery
08-11-2005, 05:01 PM
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I know when I play against my friends I play especially tough and especially tricky because we respect each other and want to demonstrate our best play.
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While we respect you as a poker player, Gawks, Hobag and I want to make it perfectly clear that we do not respect you as a human being-- in any way shape or form.
Bulbarainey
08-11-2005, 05:21 PM
ive seen a few people doing this at the commerce over in the low limit omaha section... they usually just flip it up on the turn and let the river come out. i think its collusion...
Budget Boy
08-12-2005, 10:01 AM
I've seen this kind of thing many times, and I found that the players involved are usually terrible so I don't complain or anything. If it keeps them happy and in their seats playing bad like their supposed to they can soft-play each other all night IMO.
Jeffage
08-12-2005, 10:12 AM
The one time I played 75-150 Hold Em in AC, the game started 4 handed. Me, a pro and two rich action players. When it came down to just them, they often showed their hands to each other and stopped betting. This was kind of annoying after being bet out of the pot. I almost said something, but then realized something...these guys were the whole game. They were having a great time, giving money away. So I kept my mouth shut and am glad I did.
If someone is a no action player though, I wouldn't put up with that crap long.
Jeff
When I play with my friends, I play it pretty loose overall. I am probably the best player of the group, though overall they are not bad.
But I have NEVER seen anything like that. Why even both playing if you are gonna do this sort of thing?
I agree that this is ridiculous. One of my friends got mad at me for raising him on the turn when we were heads up. He wouldn't talk to me for about two hours at the table even though we were sitting next to eachother. I found myself checking down the rest of that session when I was heads up with him, so he wouldn't whine the rest of our trip. We now rarely sit at the same table when we go to public cardrooms. I like the guy and respect the way he plays (with this one exception), but I don't feel like turning off the competitive button or turning the spotlight on the fact that "I'm with this guy." I know that we're not colluding on other hands, but if I was someone else at the table, I would start to wonder after this type of behavior. BTW - we were playing 2-6 hold em at Ex Calibur when this happened... not the toughest game around.
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I agree that this is ridiculous. One of my friends got mad at me for raising him on the turn when we were heads up. He wouldn't talk to me for about two hours at the table even though we were sitting next to eachother. I found myself checking down the rest of that session when I was heads up with him, so he wouldn't whine the rest of our trip. We now rarely sit at the same table when we go to public cardrooms. I like the guy and respect the way he plays (with this one exception), but I don't feel like turning off the competitive button or turning the spotlight on the fact that "I'm with this guy." I know that we're not colluding on other hands, but if I was someone else at the table, I would start to wonder after this type of behavior. BTW - we were playing 2-6 hold em at Ex Calibur when this happened... not the toughest game around.
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Your friend is lame. My friends are dying to checkraise me.
W. Deranged
08-12-2005, 11:10 AM
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I agree that this is ridiculous. One of my friends got mad at me for raising him on the turn when we were heads up. He wouldn't talk to me for about two hours at the table even though we were sitting next to eachother. I found myself checking down the rest of that session when I was heads up with him, so he wouldn't whine the rest of our trip. We now rarely sit at the same table when we go to public cardrooms. I like the guy and respect the way he plays (with this one exception), but I don't feel like turning off the competitive button or turning the spotlight on the fact that "I'm with this guy." I know that we're not colluding on other hands, but if I was someone else at the table, I would start to wonder after this type of behavior. BTW - we were playing 2-6 hold em at Ex Calibur when this happened... not the toughest game around.
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Your friend is lame. My friends are dying to checkraise me.
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My friends spend a lot of effort trying to get seats on my left in live games so they can isolation raise against me all the time and kill all my action.
yvesaint
08-12-2005, 11:17 AM
I think my friends just implicitly decide to collude against me, every hand.
Derek in NYC
08-12-2005, 11:29 AM
I encounter this often in NYC games. As long as the pot is HU, I dont really have a problem with friends softplaying each other. I have always found this to be the case, meaning, the softplayers never do so in multiway pots. Obviously, the risk to be aware of is collusion, namely aggressive play between friends on earlier streets, followed by softplay on later streets, followed by one friend mucking either on the river or at showdown. With a few exceptions, I havent ever really suspected collusion. If you do suspect collusion, it is probably best to find a different game, since "calling the floor" against regulars tends to get you nowhere.
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