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View Full Version : Four days in Vegas – what I learned about Texas Hold’em


ElSapo
03-24-2003, 11:38 AM
I’ve been playing poker for about a year now, relatively seriously for maybe six or seven months. By seriously, I mean I’ve been reading anything I can get my hands on, reading the discussions here in 2+2, playing in all the home games I can find and recently getting into online poker. I am, admittedly, no more than an educated beginner. But I love it – I really love poker, especially the game of hold’em.

About six months ago a friend and I made a trip to Atlantic City and played 2-4 at the Taj. Fun trip, but at that point I didn’t know enough to really grasp what was going on. I won in one session, bled money away in the next session, and had a great time though I really didn’t “get it,” for lack of a better phrase.

Fast forward to now. I spent the weekend in Vegas playing $2-6 spread at Excalibur, a poker room suggested to me by Dynasty. Thanks for this advice, by the way – the place was great, the staff very friendly, and some great games. Anyways, over four days I played about 30 hours, and I have no doubt that I learned in those sessions as much or more than I have in the past year. What I mean, I guess, was that after having read all these books and heard all the advice and guidelines, seeing it all in practice made it crystallize for me.

The first session I played was a sort I’d never seen before. It was, I guess, the “good,” $2-6 game. Bluff re-raises, value betting middle pair, capped pre-flop rounds on Ace-no-kicker. It was aggressive and the kind of game I was wholly unaccustomed to. I got run over. I got taken to school. I’m not saying I lost my head and all my chips, just that these guys played a style I’d never really seen, and so I couldn’t adjust quite quickly enough. I also realized a $2-6 game like this requires a different bankroll than a $2-6 game with rocks. Live and learn.

The second session I played was maybe the best poker I’d ever played. From about 5 a.m. to noon on Friday, I was aggressive, I watched the table, people feared my raises and I basically racked up the chips I’d lost in the first session. These first two sessions amounted to some of the best poker “lessons” I’d ever had.

Anyways, so after four days of hold’em and little sleep, these are some of the things I’ve learned. I’m even more enthralled by the game than ever before – the more I learned the more I realized how deep the game is, how complex. I can’t wait for the next time, get up to the Taj and play again. These were the longest, and easily the best, sessions I’ve ever played and they don’t compare to dealers choice four-hour home games where I can’t find rhythm switching between hold’em, stud, Omaha/8 and even draw… So here we go – all the things I’ve read and been told by you guys here. Turns out, they were true. I want to thank everyone for all their advice. This really is an invaluable resource – thanks to everyone who makes it happen, and who posts here.

1. They can’t all have aces. With only four aces in the deck, when three people call your raise there’s no reason to assume your Ace-King is beat. And when the flop comes A-2-7 and you bet and get raised, you’re probably still ahead. Granted, someone might have the set. But if you see monsters under the bed and dragons in the dark all the time, you wont win.

2. Changing speeds. About noon, I got JQs and limped in, only to see the pot bumped to the limit by a little old lady who hadn’t touched her chips in an hour. Fold, fold, fold, all around the table. She took the blind and the limpers' $2 and frowned. Too bad about those aces or kings… But thirty minutes later I and the guy next to me noticed she was in several pots, and no one would challenge. She’d switched it up – whether by plan or by realizing she was playing that tight, I never knew. But a change of speed added a lot of chips to her stack in that 30 minutes before the table caught on.

3. Position. Knowing where a raise pre-flop is likely to come from meant I could judge, depending on where the button was, how liberally I could limp in. Dynasty said, and it was definitely true, the key to the $2-6 game was limping cheap when you had cards that justified, and then pounding people when you hit – or charging limpers the max when you got big hands pre-flop. Absolutely true, it turned out. (Not that I’d doubted). And recognizing when the aggressive people were acting first allowed me to limp more liberally.

4. Patience. This is the hardest part for me – I’m not a patient person. I want to do something to win, and so it’s amazingly frustrating to realize sometimes fold, fold, fold is the best thing to do. And on those times you get a hand, sometimes it’s no good. After 45 minutes of no cards I caught KK and raised it the max. Three callers, and the flop came A-A-9. Bet, raise, and I fold. Another hand will come soon for me, and A-9 unsuited took down the pot Just b/c KK looked gorgeous a moment before, doesn’t mean I can do much with it after that flop..

5. Selected aggression. A lot like patience. You have to be aggressive, but you have to do it at the right time, also. Simply betting and raising away will thin the field, for sure, but the guy left standing is the one, of course, with a hand. You take a shot at the pot and get called or raised, time to think about what’s going on. I miss this sometimes. If the next card looks like a blank, too often I’ll bet out again, expecting a fold but getting a raise or a call. Don’t just go blindly forward throwing chips in. But when you get strong hands, don’t be afraid to back them.

That’s just a few things I learned. Or rather, things I knew before but which are not much clearer in my head. Anyways, it was an amazing weekend – at the very least, I’m relieved to know there are plenty of other people out there who can sit around the poker table for hours. My friends may think I’m nuts, but I felt pretty at home there. Next trip I’ll hopefully be a little more aware of all these things. I guess experience is the best teacher here…

...as a side note, I also found myself looking around and wondering if there were other 2+2ers at the table. If you were playing at the Excalibur over the weekend drop me a line...

Robert

Homer
03-24-2003, 01:30 PM
Excellent post! My comments on what you've learned are below...

1. They can't all have aces. With only four aces in the deck, when three people call your raise there's no reason to assume your Ace-King is beat. And when the flop comes A-2-7 and you bet and get raised, you're probably still ahead. Granted, someone might have the set. But if you see monsters under the bed and dragons in the dark all the time, you wont win.

HJ: This is something that took me a while to learn as well. It is difficult for some people, myself included, to play aggressively, and to stay aggressive when faced with resistance. I knew I had made some real progress when I started to three-bet the flop and/or check-raise the turn rather than going into a shell and calling my opponent down. Remember that you are usually playing premium hands, whereas your opponents are not. When you have AK and flop top-top, make them pay when they raise you with Ax! Sure, sometimes they will be lucky enough to pair their x as well to make two-pair (and if there is a poker god the board will later pair to counterfeit their two-pair and give you the winner), but more often you will simply outkick them.

2. Changing speeds. About noon, I got JQs and limped in, only to see the pot bumped to the limit by a little old lady who hadn't touched her chips in an hour. Fold, fold, fold, all around the table. She took the blind and the limpers' $2 and frowned. Too bad about those aces or kings; But thirty minutes later I and the guy next to me noticed she was in several pots, and no one would challenge. She'd switched it up; whether by plan or by realizing she was playing that tight, I never knew. But a change of speed added a lot of chips to her stack in that 30 minutes before the table caught on.

HJ: Are you sure the lady was tight to begin with? If she never showed down a hand how do you know? Are you assuming she played tight because she was a little old lady? It can be difficult to properly judge someone's play in a short amount of time, as a loose player could be dealt 72o for half an hour, while a tight player could be dealt big pairs/cards. If you make judgements about players without seeing them showdown any hands, you could be making an incorrect judgement.

4. Patience. This is the hardest part for me; I'm not a patient person. I want to do something to win, and so it's amazingly frustrating to realize sometimes fold, fold, fold is the best thing to do. And on those times you get a hand, sometimes it's no good. After 45 minutes of no cards I caught KK and raised it the max. Three callers, and the flop came A-A-9. Bet, raise, and I fold. Another hand will come soon for me, and A-9 unsuited took down the pot Just b/c KK looked gorgeous a moment before, doesn't mean I can do much with it after that flop..

HJ: I have difficulty with patience as well, but only when playing in loose-aggressive games. I tend to get frustrated watching LAG's take down a bunch of pots uncontested, when I know they don't have a decent hand. This makes me want to loosen my standards, as I feel need to get in there and challenge these players. I need to remember that I'm not owed anything, that the pot is not rightfully mine. I have to earn it. There are nine other players at the table. If I don't have a hand I should fold and let them compete for the pot. If there is a maniac or a LAG, I shouldn't be fighting with the other players to get his money. We should be working together in a sense, taking turns against this player.

5. Selected aggression. A lot like patience. You have to be aggressive, but you have to do it at the right time, also. Simply betting and raising away will thin the field, for sure, but the guy left standing is the one, of course, with a hand. You take a shot at the pot and get called or raised, time to think about what's going on. I miss this sometimes. If the next card looks like a blank, too often I'll bet out again, expecting a fold but getting a raise or a call. Don't just go blindly forward throwing chips in. But when you get strong hands, don't be afraid to back them.

HJ: I have found this difficult to overcome as well, especially when I have big cards and the flop misses me. I tend to push my overcards until the end, only to be called down by middle pair. You are right that we need to constantly evaluate the situation. We need to think of our hand in terms of its value relative to the other hands out there, not in terms of its own strength irrespective of the other hands.

Anyhoo, good post. It's fascinating to read what other posters learn when starting to play more. Sometimes we get carried away with discussion of minutae around here. It's good to take a step back and think about major poker concepts.

-- Homer

Louie
03-24-2003, 02:36 PM
The wild games are the ones that the tight little old men do best: be VERY selective, rarely bet, but once you make something be sure to show it down.

[1] In real-life, you would never cross a bridge that had a troll under it 10% of the time, since it's going to kill you. In poker trolls cannot kill you, they just beat you that hand. So if there is no troll most of the time you do well to cross the bridge.

[1a] The monsters are hiding in the closet because they are afraid of you. See Monsters Inc., but I digress.

[2] BINGO. This is the most reliable way to make money at poker. Play tight and break even for a couple hours, then steal them blind for a half hour until they catch on.

[3] Bingo. Put those assertive players on your right.

[4] Bingo. You can pretend that you still have the hand you started with and try to visualize how you would be playing it. You can also focus on one opponent and try to figure out exactly what he has.

[5] Bet-call-the-raise, then bet-out is a pretty weak pattern and should be done seldom. Also, few players at this level EVER raise with a hand that they will not always show down no matter what.

- Louie

davidross
03-24-2003, 03:32 PM
I love your points.

I played break even online poker for a year, and then after being off work for 2 months and playing some live and a lot more online, I started winning and winning regularly. It has continued for 4 months now. The difference in my game?
1) Getting the extra bet on my winning hands. This might be the 3 bet on the flop you talked about, or a check-raise on the turn, or a value bet on the river, but it fits in the selective aggression part of the discussion.
2) Better starting hand selection. I gave up playing AT and KQ from early position. And I got much tighter in the blinds. I used to paly anything. I do still play baby pairs from EP in the LL games because I know they are +EV in those games, despite what eveyone keeps telling me. At the 5/10 limit I’m playing now I am less likely to play them in EP.
3) Losing less when I’m beaten. I have introduced the Raise, check-fold play to my game. This more than anything has accounted for my improvement. I used to think AK was a guarantee to win and would put semi-bluff raises in to scare people off losing several big bets in the process.

CMangano
03-24-2003, 06:09 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Bet-call-the-raise, then bet-out is a pretty weak pattern and should be done seldom

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure I quite understand this. Would you mind elaborating a bit on this? Are you saying that if you call a raiser, then proceed to bet out the rest of the hand it's a weak pattern? Just a bit confused I guess. Thanks.