flop decision, 5/10 NL

[ArtVandelay]

5 limpers and SB completes, which is standard for this game, and I rap in the BB with 97 of spades

the flop comes Ts6s5x; I lead 50, a tight-aggressive (TAG) min-raises to 100, a loose canon (LC) cold-calls, and it's folded to me; after the call I have another 500 behind, and both my opponents have around 1k; should I call or push? (or raise less than my stack?!)

a little color on my opponents:
TAG is a probably a winner in the game but seems somewhat ABC
LC is a totally wild player, capable of anything at any time, changing gears every orbit or two; seemed like she was in loose-mode at the time of the hand

[fisherman112]

if it were me i call and pray for an offsuit 8.
you're getting great odds, your hand is disguised and the pot's big enough that a push probably isnt getting out 65. (the big pot also means that if you hit you'll probably get doubled through)

this is really dependant on your read of the two other players. if this is a line neither of them would take with a set than a push seems fine since there is 300 worth of dead money in the pot, but otherwise take your cheap turn.

[RollaJ]

I think you cant really go wrong calling or moving in. Id tend to move in on this flop, there are a lot of hands people can fear, and you may be able to take down the $300 pot right there. Of course if you get called you likely have 12 outs twice which is not a bad place to be.

[runnerunner]

I'd definitely just call here. With the loose cannon cold calling $100 I'd be very worried that my spade outs aren't any good. What else is she calling with? She would raise with two pair, so its either 78 or spades. Call and hope you hit the gutshot.

[kagame]

this probably means you should move in to try to buy outs

unless loose cannon is calling half his stack with a flush draw, ick

[LetYouDown]

Anyone make an argument for folding here? I'd say it's well within the realm of possibility that you're drawing to a flush that's no good and any board pair puts you in really rough shape. I realize you're getting a great price here, but I don't like being OOP against both a TAG and a loose cannon where I can hit my outs and not be overly thrilled about it.

[sekrah]

Call.. I don't think you have a whole lot of fold equity here with a couple of limpers that could have anything, and will prob call you down with A-10.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
5 limpers and SB completes, which is standard for this game, and I rap in the BB with 97 of spades

the flop comes Ts6s5x; I lead 50, a tight-aggressive (TAG) min-raises to 100, a loose canon (LC) cold-calls, and it's folded to me; after the call I have another 500 behind, and both my opponents have around 1k; should I call or push? (or raise less than my stack?!)

a little color on my opponents:
TAG is a probably a winner in the game but seems somewhat ABC
LC is a totally wild player, capable of anything at any time, changing gears every orbit or two; seemed like she was in loose-mode at the time of the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

If the raise were larger, it would be allin or fold time.

Since the raise is so small, nothing wrong with peeling one off here.

Allin isn't bad either. The problem with calling, as is pointed out, is that if you hit a spade you won't be sure where you stand, whereas if you're allin you can be sure that the spades and the 8 are good.

[lapoker17]

You can't continue the hand unless you clean up your spade outs - push (although it seems a little ridiculous) or fold. I push.

[Marlow]

I admit that I'm a little suprised by your lead into 6 opponents OOP with a non-nut drawing hand. Perhaps I'm too conservative in this regard. Is this standard?

Marlow

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
With the loose cannon cold calling $100 I'd be very worried that my spade outs aren't any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like more reason to push, to me.

[Big_Jim]

Hero's got 12 outs. Against a normal raise (not a min-raise) this is an easy push. As it is.. it's a little bit harder push.

I think that he has good fold equity here, despite what others have said. I think that AT or KT has a really tough call here, against the BB.

Push cleans up your flush outs, which is also nice.

A set calls instantly, of course, but you still have a 35% chance to suck out.

If villian would only make this min-raise with a set, you should probably fold, since you have no fold equity, and LC probably has a better draw.

Otherwise.... GAMBOOOOOOL.

[Marlow]

Actually, I'm referring to the $50 lead to open action on the flop. I assume that's normal since no one has commented on it elsewhere. Is the idea here that it's Ok to lead here because you are comfortable getting your whole stack in anyway? And this way, you are in the driver's seat?

Marlow

[lapoker17]

That's generally the idea, but the minraise kind of fd it up, so this hand plays a little differently. It's still a push it just feels strange.

Also, just my thoughts,but unless villain is awful, the miraise can't be a set - or even 2 pair. I thought it was a bad bet with a hand like AT.

[savman]

this was my thinking....he has to be pretty bad to minraise with a set here....i push in the hopes of knocking out tag....who knows what loose cannon will do, but i like my hand against his range and it will defenitely help ur image/make LC tilt if u "suckout" on his j10 or whatever.

[mgsimpleton]

like people said, push or fold so your spades are clean. and let's be honest, pushing is just way more fun. it's positive ev for the soul.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
pushing is just way more fun. it's positive ev for the soul.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shania loves you.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the idea here that it's Ok to lead here because you are comfortable getting your whole stack in anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup.

[Big_Jim]

What does everybody do when TAG and LC call, then a 2c rolls off on the turn?

My typical line is to fire one more barrel (1/2 - 2/3 the pot) and hope that nobody raises, folding if they do.

Oh yeah, buy in for more.

[mythrilfox]

on the flop it's 50 back to you with 300 in the pot and 400 behind you would just flat-call with a monster and lead the turn? bull

stop and go is bad no matter what hand you have, unless it's for confusion/deception purposes or you have a very specific reason to do it. not standard in my book

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]

on the flop it's 50 back to you with 300 in the pot and 400 behind you would just flat-call with a monster and lead the turn? bull

stop and go is bad no matter what hand you have, unless it's for confusion/deception purposes or you have a very specific reason to do it. not standard in my book

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... what?

My scenario has TAG and LC calling my flop bet.

[ArtVandelay]

Seems like calling and pushing are both okay, although one should do the latter more often. One point though...

A few people have said it's raise or fold because your spade outs are not clean. Although that's true, you are getting 6.4:1 on a call with four outs to the nuts. Even if you fold all spades (except the 8), your implied is still good enough to just go for an 8. Anyway, folding is probably wrong, IMHO.

[ArtVandelay]

I pushed; TAG folded (said later he had AT), and LC called flipping up a bizarrely played AA; I missed.

Thanks for all the responses guys.

[sawseech]

glad to hear it turned out perfectly
*not kidding, look at all that dead money