KK on A high flop v. reasonable player

[tigerite]

So who likes or hates my line here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t2030)
MP1 (t795)
MP2 (t335)
Hero (t880)
Button (t745)
SB (t2095)
BB (t1120)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t250</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls t150.

Flop: (t575) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t575) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t1780 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t630 (All-In).

River: (t2985) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2985

[jgunnip]

While I don't neccessarily hate your line, I usually raise a little more preflop, to t300-375 but since that's so much of your stack I'll just push.

On the flop its is a way ahead/way behind spot and if you're going to put all your chips in regardless, you might as well let him put some of his in first. I don't really see any way/reason to lay the hand down, but that ace sucks. However you do still have t630 if you let it go which is horrible.

[tigerite]

If it was against a normal $33 donk I would probably push preflop, but this guy was quite a tricky, decent-ish player, and at the very least, a thinking one. I didn't want him out of the hand preflop and figured I could outplay him post flop..

I also knew he knew I'd have a big pair or big hand to do this with, if you catch my drift.

[ZeroPointMachine]

If that overbet is some kind of fake bluff he gets me here everytime. With your stack size there is no getting away from this. I smell smaller PP, KQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif or maybe a laggy 910 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

[tigerite]

I'll post the results later, but I was pretty sure he didn't have the ace, and also, that by checking the flop, he'd realise that the ace was a scare card for me. He can't have KQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif though, because I've got the K/images/graemlins/spade.gif .

[jgunnip]

I see so you're saying its very possible he could have crap or close to it? I'll make an UTG min-raise like this with suited connectors in a MTT under the right conditions but never in a SNG. Cleary if you were pretty sure he didn't have an ace then folding would be bad. And I can defintely see a player that could put you on a high PP here pushing the turn.

[tigerite]

He has the stack to run a steal, it's certainly not the worst idea in the world. Even if he has an ace, here's my thinking:

If I show strength on the flop by 2/3rds potting it, (and if I show less, I am absolutely sure he pushes any two cards) then I am committed to playing for my stack anyway. However, if he has nothing, he folds and gets away without putting anything else into the pot. So, if he has an ace, I'm dead anyway, because this is a tricky player and the only way to define my hand is to bet big enough that I can't get away from it.

However, checking behind, gives him the chance to bluff the turn, when he doesn't have the ace, so I can call and be way ahead, and pick up a very nice pot. When he has the ace, I'm dead of course, but I would have been whatever I'd done on the flop too. I lose the same chips when behind either way, but gain the most chips when ahead this way.

Well, that's my thinking, maybe it's flawed I dunno.. would like to hear some more opinions though..

[viennagreen]

why did you check the flop? were you so confident that he didn't have an ace that you wanted to induce a bluff? if checked because you thought he might have an ace--- was it just his big all-in turn bet that made you call?

i don't disagree with being committed to this hand--- just, i think it's better to bet the flop rather than call all-in on the turn.

he doesn't have the nut flush draw. i'd say JJ,TT or a weak ace...

i'm guessing you won, but i don't like the play

[tigerite]

Nah I just explained above, betting on the flop commits me anyway and achieves nothing except that I lose to a better hand, and all worse hands (and bluffs) fold. A check, specifically because this is a thinking, decent-ish player, screams weakness after the preflop raise, and is more likely to induce a bluff on the turn, thus this line gains me the chips when I'm way ahead, and both lines lose me the chips when I'm way behind.

PS Also because he's a decent player he wouldn't be making this move with a weak ace from UTG

[Maulik]

Tiger,

I like your line as much as I like the old program! its good! With the blinds being so low you could still muck with that action, but I wouldn't do it.

My guess is QQ or JJ. Seems like you made a good call against a bluff or he sucked out hard and made three 9's on the turn. I could see someone slowplaying AK or something once in a while but that wasn't the type of turn bet I think most people would do after slowplaying the flop. Knowing the he couldn't have a weak A, I believe he will have the high PP hand more often than not.

[tigerite]

Well, results time. He had K /images/graemlins/club.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif for the stone cold bluff, with no outs.