Mariano Rivera [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

MEbenhoe

08-09-2005, 05:51 PM

Seems to be a pick topic lately, so lets get the 2+2 take on it. Does Rivera deserve the AL Cy Young award right now? or possibly even the AL MVP? His name has been mentioned for both recently, but is this realistic?

In his last 10 appearances he's 1-0 with 7 saves, 0.87 ERA, 0.29 WHIP, 11 K, in 10.2 IP, and without him the Yankees would pretty much be out of contention at this point.

Thoughts?

sublime

08-09-2005, 05:54 PM

Does Rivera deserve the AL Cy Young award right now? or possibly even the AL MVP? His name has been mentioned for both recently, but is this realistic?

No, and no. and no.

and without him the Yankees would pretty much be out of contention at this point.

Giambis drug induced play of the past few months has much more to do with the yankees being alive then rivera.

hoopsie44

08-09-2005, 05:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Seems to be a pick topic lately, so lets get the 2+2 take on it. Does Rivera deserve the AL Cy Young award right now? or possibly even the AL MVP? His name has been mentioned for both recently, but is this realistic?

In his last 10 appearances he's 1-0 with 7 saves, 0.87 ERA, 0.29 WHIP, 11 K, in 10.2 IP, and without him the Yankees would pretty much be out of contention at this point.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not bad for a guy who was washed up after the third game of this season.

MEbenhoe

08-09-2005, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does Rivera deserve the AL Cy Young award right now? or possibly even the AL MVP? His name has been mentioned for both recently, but is this realistic?

No, and no. and no.

and without him the Yankees would pretty much be out of contention at this point.

Giambis drug induced play of the past few months has much more to do with the yankees being alive then rivera.

[/ QUOTE ]

I obviously don't think he deserves the MVP, only mentioned it because I heard his name mentioned for it, but to say he shouldn't be in line for the Cy Young might be your Boston bias just a little. I can't say that he 100% deserves it, but he absolutely deserves mention for it.

irishpint

08-09-2005, 05:56 PM

no closers (other than gagne when he won) shouldn't win either award. sorry. cy young? buerhle maybe. MVP? i just dont want to say Arod, so i dunno

Hornacek

08-09-2005, 05:56 PM

Cy Young? yes.

MVP? no.

Cy Young, esp in a year where the most dominant AL pitcher is Jon Garland (read: its an off year), Rivera has been brilliant.

However, I don't think MVP is that attainable. If you look around the league, I don't even think he's been the MVP of his team, when you consider the efforts of ARod, Giambi, and Sheff. IMO MVP is gonna be between Manny and ARod.

irishpint

08-09-2005, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Cy Young? yes.

MVP? no.

Cy Young, esp in a year where the most dominant AL pitcher is Jon Garland (read: its an off year), Rivera has been brilliant.

However, I don't think MVP is that attainable. If you look around the league, I don't even think he's been the MVP of his team, when you consider the efforts of ARod, Giambi, and Sheff. IMO MVP is gonna be between Manny and ARod.

[/ QUOTE ]

manny wont win MVP me doesn't think.

Hornacek

08-09-2005, 05:58 PM

Feel free to have your own opinion, but Manny is having another typical quiet Manny year... leading the league in RBI and HR, while no one is noticing... I think he's actually tied with ARod now for HR.

sublime

08-09-2005, 06:00 PM

most dominant AL pitcher is Jon Garland

where do you guys get this stuff from?

irishpint

08-09-2005, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Feel free to have your own opinion, but Manny is having another typical quiet Manny year... leading the league in RBI and HR, while no one is noticing... I think he's actually tied with ARod now for HR.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's having a great year, no doubt. but MVPs are rarely won by now, they are usually decided in the last 2 months, plus manny is a dick and he has that working against him this year.

hoopsie44

08-09-2005, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Feel free to have your own opinion, but Manny is having another typical quiet Manny year... leading the league in RBI and HR, while no one is noticing... I think he's actually tied with ARod now for HR.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's having a great year, no doubt. but MVPs are rarely won by now, they are usually decided in the last 2 months, plus manny is a dick and he has that working against him this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

That works against him every year.

irishpint

08-09-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Feel free to have your own opinion, but Manny is having another typical quiet Manny year... leading the league in RBI and HR, while no one is noticing... I think he's actually tied with ARod now for HR.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's having a great year, no doubt. but MVPs are rarely won by now, they are usually decided in the last 2 months, plus manny is a dick and he has that working against him this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

That works against him every year.

[/ QUOTE ]

he sits out games around the trade deadline because he is a baby every year? i know he whines and demands to be traded, but this is news to me.

hoopsie44

08-09-2005, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Feel free to have your own opinion, but Manny is having another typical quiet Manny year... leading the league in RBI and HR, while no one is noticing... I think he's actually tied with ARod now for HR.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's having a great year, no doubt. but MVPs are rarely won by now, they are usually decided in the last 2 months, plus manny is a dick and he has that working against him this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

That works against him every year.

[/ QUOTE ]

he sits out games around the trade deadline because he is a baby every year? i know he whines and demands to be traded, but this is news to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Being a dick works against him every year.

sublime

08-09-2005, 06:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does Rivera deserve the AL Cy Young award right now? or possibly even the AL MVP? His name has been mentioned for both recently, but is this realistic?

No, and no. and no.

and without him the Yankees would pretty much be out of contention at this point.

Giambis drug induced play of the past few months has much more to do with the yankees being alive then rivera.

[/ QUOTE ]

I obviously don't think he deserves the MVP, only mentioned it because I heard his name mentioned for it, but to say he shouldn't be in line for the Cy Young might be your Boston bias just a little. I can't say that he 100% deserves it, but he absolutely deserves mention for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not biased against rivera (he is a phenomenal pitcher), I just think closers are overrated by a tremendous amount and the fact that they pitch in about 1/3 the innings as a starter should basically eliminate them from contention.

Soul Daddy

08-09-2005, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
most dominant AL pitcher is Jon Garland

where do you guys get this stuff from?

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, the only stat that matters is wins!!! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Soul Daddy

08-09-2005, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not biased against rivera (he is a phenomenal pitcher), I just think closers are overrated by a tremendous amount and the fact that they pitch in about 1/3 the innings as a starter should basically eliminate them from contention.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. The only time a closer should be in contention is if there are no serious candidates among the league's starters, and a closer has an absolutely dominant season. This season is actually pretty close to that situation, so I'm not giving an opinion yet. Halladay was all over it, but that's why you wait to discuss these things.

Dynasty

08-09-2005, 08:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no closers (other than gagne when he won) shouldn't win either award.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eckersley should have won in 1990 when his #'s were:

4 W, 2 L, 48 SV, 0.61 ERA, 0.61 WHIP, 73 K, 73.1 IP

He ended up winning both the Cy Young and MVP in '92 when his #'s weren't as good.

andyfox

08-09-2005, 08:44 PM

I think he'll get consideration because he had the best name recognition and reputation of all closers. He's finished up the list, in Cy Young voting, if memory serves, more than once. My guess is he won't win it unless he saves 45-50 in a row, the Yankees make the playoffs, and nobody wins 21-22 games. Pretty tough trifecta. MVP is pretty doubtful.

He's pitched wonderfully since the first two games.

technologic

08-09-2005, 10:42 PM

YOU BASTARD SUBLIME RIVERA PWNS

i just like how schilling wasn't a unanimous 2nd place last year, rivera stole that one vote of justice.

rivera's early season woes i attribute to family problems and thus not being available for spring training. rivera will continue to be pwnage for the rest of the year.

sublime

08-09-2005, 11:19 PM

YOU BASTARD SUBLIME RIVERA PWNS

which is exactly what i said. except i did it without usuing 'PWNS', which is beyond annoying.

rivera will continue to be pwnage for the rest of the year.

he will probably help keep toronto out of 2nd place

Jack of Arcades

08-10-2005, 01:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
no closers (other than gagne when he won) shouldn't win either award. sorry. cy young? buerhle maybe. MVP? i just dont want to say Arod, so i dunno

[/ QUOTE ]

Halladay?