Cowardly fold or right move?

[Gronk]

Playing .5/1 online.

I've got 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif on the button. I just sat down at the table 2 hands ago so I don't have a good read on anyone or the table itself yet.

5 limpers including myself and the SB completes.

Flop comes down 6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif Q /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . Checked to an MP 3 positions to my right who bets, 2 callers and I raised. Folded around back to MP and they all call.

Turn is a K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . Same MP from before bets, next player folds, next player raises and I fold. At this point I had myself convinced I was beat by 10 J. MP calls.

River is a blank. MP bets and LP calls. MP takes it down with QKo.

I think I need a good smack in the face for folding here. Comments on the play would be greatly appreciated. I think the main reason I folded so fast is that I've been losing all day and I let it get the best of my mind.

[PokerPrince]

It was a poor fold. We all make them from time to time so don't get down on yourself, it's a part of learning. I like your preflop and flop play very much. On the turn I would most likely reraise, although calling is not a poor choice either. Even if you are behind to a made straight you still have outs to make a full house. This is definately enough reason to at least call the turn raise.

PokerPrince

[anatta]

Its to your credit that you know you messed up, and posted about it. I didn't count the bets, but it looks like you are getting something like 10:2 on your turn call. Its 3.5:1 to fill up, so even if you are behind, you have the odds to continue. A call on the river with your set is mandatory. Someone once said that if you never fold a set that would be okay. Obviously, don't take that too literally, but you get the gist.

One more thing - a queen high flop, followed by a king on the turn often gives someone two pair, as does any card one higher in rank than the top card, or any ace.

[elysium]

no, don't take it so hard. whew...but we're not going to be easy on you. this is 2+2, better to take your lumps here than at the table. what we're you thinking? i've seen bad folds before, but what, you folded a set!? how can you do such a thing? on that board? i've folded a set too before.remember, as long as you're getting 3 to 1 odds, you can call a four straight on the board with your set. they say 3.5 to 1 to be exact, but the implied action usually makes always calling correct. just simply never ever muck a set on the turn unless it's something like the bottom set on a broadway flop and the players are solid and capped the pre-flop, and your in the middle and they start a capping war again. now fold your bottom set. call with every other set in the book to at least the turn. of course, raise, but at the very least call.on the river you still should normally call unless it four flushes or four straights toward broadway. even then,usually call.

[rayrns]

I haven't read any other answers yet but let me try this. You have 6.5 bb in the pot. There are 10 outs for your full house. 4-1 against. You can definitely call. A raise here and you may find if the original bettor has the str8, then if you don't fill and he bets out you can think about folding. Although I'd have a hard time laying down a set anytime.

[Jim Easton]

I say cowardly fold. Continuing the hand was an easy decision, 3-betting would have been better than raising.

[Ed Miller]

This was a horrible fold. Not only do you likely have the best hand still, but you have 10 outs to beat the straight.

[Gronk]

Thanks to everyone for all of your comments. I'll be hard pressed to make that mistake again after all that chastising /forums/images/icons/cool.gif . I didn't think of this at the time but in this situation, do you still consider a king or queen to be an out since it's likely that one of the other players very likely has 2-pair kings and queens? I know you shouldn't fold if you fill up but should you take that into consideration when calculating your odds of beating the straight on the turn?

[anatta]

If you knew for sure that one had a str8 and the other had KQ, then you should fold rather than play your 4 outer. The vast majority of the time, however, you are either ahead with your set or drawing to ten outs. Since nobody can read hands perfectly, I think you just call all bets on the turn here hoping to fill up.

[Louie]

Didn't read the replies.

By my count you are getting 10:2 or 5:1 to call, which is enough to draw to your full house: you have 10 outs of 45 unseen cards, or 35:10 or 3.5 to one (which compares favorably to then 5:1 odds you are getting). Easy call if you KNOW you are up against a made straight.

However... You an easily be up against a made straight AND 2 pair (KsQs), in which case you only have 4 outs (3-9s and 1-6). This is the problem with bottom set.

In this situation, however, there is certainly some doubt about whether you have the best hand, so even if your "outs" are restricted (surely someone has 2 pair), you should still call.

- Louie

[oddjob]

i think you failed to see what he puts you on. when you raised the flop he probably put you on AQ, or Q9. when he made his 2 pair and no reraise he definitly thought he had you beat.

i make this mistake time to time, but there's no way i fold on the river. i pay him off, even if i think i'm beat by the river.