KKKK hand

[Tilt]

A bit of a brag post, sorry.

PLO 100, blinds 1-1, my stack is 250. I have been nut-peddling for an hour now.

In BB I get KKKK.

3 limpers and a minraise, I call on the chance that I can bluff the pot. SB calls too. Its 5 to the flop.

Flop $10 - A /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Check to MP who pots it. His stack is 200. I put him on a set. He is tight and respects me, we have a long history. I call, because I have just decided that I have a flush draw and a straight draw. No one else wants to party, so its heads up.

Turn, pot is 30, T /images/graemlins/club.gif
I check, he bets $15, I min check raise to $30. He thinks a while and calls.

River, pot is 90, 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I bet $90, he folds.

God I love Omaha.

[autobet]

nice play!

[DoomSlice]

So what happens if no heart hits... or if he happened to have a heart redraw?

[Tilt]

My min raise on the turn was intended to communicate that I have the nut straight. If he had strong heart redraw he might have pushed back on the turn. My read was that he called the min raise looking for the board to pair.

Once he failed to push back on the turn, I was pretty comfortable he would fold any non-paired board on the river. The heart was irrelevant. He could not have the nuts without one of the kings.

[DoomSlice]

[ QUOTE ]
He could not have the nuts without one of the kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, nice play.

[gmunny]

That's cool. Did you muck em or show em?
G$

[lehighguy]

Please tell me you showed them and said you thought you had quads.

[Tilt]

No, I never show. I like it when they fold more than they should. I dont want to encourage callers.

[wickss]

Now that is the kind of play I love making. It took me months to figure out how to play like that. Why does noone ever write about playing the board instead of playing your cards. This is the first time I have seen anyone revealed anything deep about PLO.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]

In BB I get KKKK.

3 limpers and a minraise, I call on the chance that I can lose all my money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've corrected your post for you.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In BB I get KKKK.

3 limpers and a minraise, I call on the chance that I can lose all my money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've corrected your post for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think i would fold this hand with a free look from the BB.

[illegit]

He happened to find a situation where holding all the Ks made a difference as far as hand analysis, but I don't think this will often be the case so I'm not gonna call just hoping I can find a good bluff spot. Change it to AAAA and start the bluffing by potting it PF. Now that has a high pretty probability of working for rather obvious reasons.

[Tilt]

WTF?

I'm not advocating this hand as a good one. I made a play. Would you never make a cold bluff, or call a min raise to enter a pot on the prospect of making one?

Its rare that I would try and do something like this, once in while. But notice that excellent conditions for a cold bluff exist here, since the table was 1) weak tight 2) I had a good image, 3) the stacks were deep enough, and 4) my hand has a good chance of having the nut card in it.

A play like this is profitable in a few ways. First, you can win some nice pots like this. Second, if you lose and show down such a hand, there are metagame benefits - you will get called more often, which can be a great thing when you are aware of it.

I think my play here has a lot more thought behind it than your flip response.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF?

I'm not advocating this hand as a good one. I made a play. Would you never make a cold bluff, or call a min raise to enter a pot on the prospect of making one?

Its rare that I would try and do something like this, once in while. But notice that excellent conditions for a cold bluff exist here, since the table was 1) weak tight 2) I had a good image, 3) the stacks were deep enough, and 4) my hand has a good chance of having the nut card in it.

A play like this is profitable in a few ways. First, you can win some nice pots like this. Second, if you lose and show down such a hand, there are metagame benefits - you will get called more often, which can be a great thing when you are aware of it.

I think my play here has a lot more thought behind it than your flip response.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I make a bluff, it atleast has some chance of winning anyway. Your bluff started preflop, kept going on the flop, kept going on the turn and kept going on the river.
If i'm going to bluff, it's going to be with cards, that even if I get called can still win the pot anyway.
I would never call preflop with cards purely with the intention of bluffing, why not just play every single hand if you intend to do this?
You still win all the big pots by actually having good cards and getting called. Bluffing at pots does not win you almost nearly enough, so work on playing good cards.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
When I make a bluff, it atleast has some chance of winning anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If i'm going to bluff, it's going to be with cards, that even if I get called can still win the pot anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you never bluff the river? You only semi-bluff?

And you think that is the most profitable way to play? That no cold bluff can ever be +EV?

[DarthIgnurnt]

[ QUOTE ]
When I make a bluff

If i'm going to bluff


[/ QUOTE ]

According to your web site, you play PLO 50 tables ...

Two things ...

1) How do you bluff at a PLO 50 table when top pair calls down to the river?

2) Move up to the big boy tables or tone down the arrogance in your posts.

Hey Tilt ... nh.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I make a bluff, it atleast has some chance of winning anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If i'm going to bluff, it's going to be with cards, that even if I get called can still win the pot anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you never bluff the river? You only semi-bluff?

And you think that is the most profitable way to play? That no cold bluff can ever be +EV?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't call preflop with the sole intention of bluffing the river to try and win the pot, which you did.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I make a bluff

If i'm going to bluff


[/ QUOTE ]

According to your web site, you play PLO 50 tables ...

Two things ...

1) How do you bluff at a PLO 50 table when top pair calls down to the river?

2) Move up to the big boy tables or tone down the arrogance in your posts.

Hey Tilt ... nh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't believe everything you read. I play $400 tables usually, which you would see if you looked at my pokerhand list http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?page=list&user=Ribs
For the sake of writing my book and research I play all manner of table limits. Also if you read my live journal you would see what I'm playing: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ribmeister/

Apology accepted.

[FlyingSumo]

When you play certain people, they will hardly ever call your riverbet on a 3-flush or str8board without the nuts. I think that MIGHT make this KKKK-hand a profitable one to bluff with, with the only intension of bluffing, yes.

Also, if you combine this hand with your KKQJ/KQJT/etc-play, then I really think there's no question about it.

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I never show. I like it when they fold more than they should. I dont want to encourage callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[If your bluff is shown] there are metagame benefits - you will get called more often, which can be a great thing when you are aware of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Inconsistent much?

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, I never show. I like it when they fold more than they should. I dont want to encourage callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[If your bluff is shown] there are metagame benefits - you will get called more often, which can be a great thing when you are aware of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Inconsistent much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not. I don't volunteer to show a bluff. If I get called down, I can use it to my benefit. I would prefer not to get called or show.

[Guy McSucker]

You don't give suits. Did you have the K/images/graemlins/heart.gif?

Guy.

[RickyG]

[ QUOTE ]
1) How do you bluff at a PLO 50 table when top pair calls down to the river?

2) Move up to the big boy tables or tone down the arrogance in your posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just ignorant. The buy in of the game you are playing shouldnt be the sole factor to determine whether you should bluff. Unless of course you are paying absolutely no attention to factors such as, board texture, number of players in the hand, and the way these players have reacted before. There are plenty of opportunities to bluff correctly at $50 tables and many of them work well.

as for number two. I didnt know there was a requirement for which tables you had to play in order for your advice to be worth reading.

See, Ribbo is a prick, but he usually gives decent advice. Which is better than just being a prick like others on this board. But then again, my opinion means nothing because I only play the $50 tables.

my $0.02