G.A. self-test

[Derek in NYC]

Not that I think I have a problem, but Im curious how many questions you answer yes to, and which ones are they? (I answer yes to 7, and according to G.A. may have a problem.)

[Mr. Curious]

This test has been posted many times before. It seems like you are trying to prove to yourself that you are not the only one who scores a 7 and can then continue to deny your possible gambling addiction.

[Grisgra]

I agree. You're one sick puppy and obviously should seek professional help immediately.

PS I scored a '6'.

[SNOWBALL138]

I got a six but some of the answers are borderline. I think I could be +/- ~2 depending on how I interpret the question. Honestly, I think the GA test provides us with a good opportunity to examine our gambling habits, but its not the most precise instrument.

For example, they state that MOST addicted gamblers answer seven or more YES. However, they don't state which seven. Are we to assume that each of the questions should be weighted equally? I'm sorry, but 'did you ever consider suicide?' is a lot more important than 'did you ever celebrate good fortune by gambling?'.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't take the test seriously. You could score a 2 and have a serious gambling problem in my opinion (suicide and crime questions).I think you can also score a seven or eight or possibly higher and be ok too. The point is that this test is not a substitute for other things like therapy, self-discipline, the support of a friend, etc.

I took this test 2 months ago at the same time that I wrote this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=psych&Number=2622619&F orum=,,,,f12,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=4&Limit=25&Main =2622619&Search=true&where=sub&Name=26125&daterang e=1&newerval=3&newertype=m&olderval=&oldertype=&bo dyprev=#Post2622619)

Thankfully, 2 months later, I was able to write this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3082811&page=1&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

One of the things that I did 2 months ago was to write out a detailed response to each of the questions. Then I showed it to someone who cared about me, and we discussed it. Try it. You might learn something about yourself.

Best regards,
Snowball

[RiverDood]

Here's a suggestion for how to analyze scores more effectively.

Pick your favorite non-poker hobby. Call it hiking, skiing, reading, judging wet T-shirt contests, whatever. Run it through the same quiz.

If your poker/gambling score is meaningfully higher, ponder what's going on. If they're about the same, then poker/gambling is right in the realm of your other interests. That's not quite a clean bill of health, but it could be reassuring.

[SNOWBALL138]

Thats a great idea.

Adjustments have to be made for people who derive most of their total income from poker. For these people, poker is more than a hobby.

Think about this question: Would it be healthy for someone to lose sleep over doing poorly in a casual video game versus a friend?

Now think about this question: Would it be normal for someone to, as a result of a bad decision by the tournament director, lose sleep after coming in second place to a weak opponent in a large prize video game tournament?

Surely you realize that their is a significant difference here.

Now think about this question: Would it be normal for a lawyer to hardly sleep at all the morning before trial?

Or

Would it be normal for a small business owner to cut back on normal personal expenditures to keep their business operations robust?

There is a very good reason why GA does not make these kinds of distinctions: They deny that poker is a skill game and ignore the fact that there are many people in the world that make lifelong incomes from making correct wagers.

Does this mean that the GA 20 questions should be ignored? No way. Does this post mean that you don't have a gambling problem? No. Does it mean that the 20 questions are very very far from perfect? Yes.

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
Pick your favorite non-poker hobby. Call it hiking, skiing, reading, judging wet T-shirt contests, whatever. Run it through the same quiz.

If your poker/gambling score is meaningfully higher, ponder what's going on. If they're about the same, then poker/gambling is right in the realm of your other interests. That's not quite a clean bill of health, but it could be reassuring.

[/ QUOTE ]



So if you celebrate a promotion by playing tennis, and have the urge to play tennis more often when you win, but you also snatch purses for gambling money and overdose on pain medication when you lose, you have a score of 2 on each test.

[RiverDood]

[ QUOTE ]
So if you celebrate a promotion by playing tennis, and have the urge to play tennis more often when you win, but you also snatch purses for gambling money and overdose on pain medication when you lose, you have a score of 2 on each test.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmn. I meet lots of people every day, but I haven't quite met anyone who fits that profile.

I liked your first reply a lot, but now I'm worried that we're trapped in an argument based on contrived examples. That wasn't my intent. Maybe we can reach agreement by going back to the basic GA questions. About 40% of them gauge whether the respondent has an intense/obsessive hobby. About 60% of them gauge whether the respondent is committing financial suicide by gambling.

As you wisely pointed out, GA treats this all as totally fused into the same big problem, because of the belief that the more you gamble, the more you lose. That's true in games without skill, but not entirely true in poker. I think we agree on that.

So the point of my original post is that scores in the 4-8 range may include mostly yesses to the intense hobby questions. (i.e. not being able to sleep; staying longer than expected; missing school or work.)

So we agree that those "yes" answers are somewhat different than the suicide/crime answers. I'm suggesting that a good way to filter out these "perhaps non-deadly" yesses is to see what people say about their other hobbies. I'm assuming that your ardent tennis/poker player will say yes to some of the same things. That's all.

[Guernica4000]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a suggestion for how to analyze scores more effectively.

Pick your favorite non-poker hobby. Call it hiking, skiing, reading, judging wet T-shirt contests, whatever. Run it through the same quiz.

If your poker/gambling score is meaningfully higher, ponder what's going on. If they're about the same, then poker/gambling is right in the realm of your other interests. That's not quite a clean bill of health, but it could be reassuring.

[/ QUOTE ]

I re-did the test with my favorite non-poker hobby. "SEX" and I now have discovered that I am a sex addict. I better go gambling soon. :-)

[kyleb]

I am pretty sure I scored 100% on this test.

Wait, that's not a good thing?

Anyway, this test is mainly BS in my opinion. It's more or less designed for the crazed blackjack/roulette/craps players and not the poker players, although I've always said that at least 95% of the poker players in the world started off as gamblers.

If you realize that you have a propensity for gambling and can control it, you're fine. G.A. has overly strict rules for a reason - to keep business flowing in and to "save" people from what they see as an abomination in society.

I happen to disagree.

[ThinkQuick]

[ QUOTE ]


I re-did the test with my favorite non-poker hobby. "SEX" and I now have discovered that I am a sex addict. I better go gambling soon. :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

wow sex scores much much higer than gambling for me.
Though I had to skip some questions like " Did you often [HAVE SEX] until your last dollar was gone? " and I had to answer no to some questions like "Did you ever [HAVE SEX] to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties? "

[SNOWBALL138]

You're right. I sounded too much like I was discounting your argument. I actually think you have a good idea w/ scoring yourself on another activity in your life. Its not a perfect idea, but its a fine place to start.

However, no self test is a substitute for the expertise of a mental health professional.

[SNOWBALL138]

bump

[bambi]

If you replace the word gamble with alcohol, im in trouble, i cant remember how many i scored

dang

bump

[rgschackelford]

I answered "Yes" to three, but I'm being lenient. With the "missing work or school", I have skipped a class once or twice to play in a small cash game with some friends, but I deemed the class to not be of importance that day. As a matter of fact, a lot of people in our circle have done that two or three times. But it has never been habitual, or affected our grades.

Coming back to win more after winning is not only natural to a poker player, it is correct (as long as your are a tight-aggressive player). Mike Caro makes mention in SS2 to the question "You were up $5,000 at one point, and now you're down to $1,200. Why didn't you quit when you were up $5,000?" The answer is, "Because I was up $5,000." You tend to play with a clearer head when you're winning. You're in that "zone", and you are making the correct reads, plays, laydown, and such. It's just easier to win more when you're winning already.

And finally, if you've played longer than expected. If a game is good, I mean, real good, it's hard to leave it. If Perry Perch, the local fish sits down with his three buddies Barry Bass, Timmy Trout, and Wally Walleye (all fish, if you haven't figured out), but you're approaching the four-hour limit you set on your session, you're going to be uneasy to get up from the table. If you've got nothing to do for the rest of the night, and nothing the next day, and you're thinking clearly, and making good decisions at the felt, why should you get up? It's like Christmas has come a little early this year! So, as Jingle Bells is running through your head, it (along with your common sense) sorta blocks out the notions of standing up and walking out.

There are other topics that I could tackle, like remorse being the same thing as the sting of a downswing, or even that G.A.'s definition of "gamble" refers mainly to -EV bets, and the intelligent poker player's definition of "gamble" almost always refers to +EV bets. But I'll end this essay right here. If you'd like me to continue with my spiel, PM me, or reply to this, and maybe I'll get it. I'm honestly thinking on hitting the hay, because it's 6:30 AM where I am.

Later everybody.

Rusty G.

[SNOWBALL138]

Hi Rusty,

First of all, I just want to say congratulations on a successfull REBUMP /images/graemlins/tongue.gif of a good thread and an excellent poll

I think your comments on the GA questionaire are valid, and your examples are very good. I had a few criticisms of the self test also that I posted in this thread. By all means continue to post your ideas on this topic.

On a sidenote, I am somewhat reluctant to criticize the test. I think it is useful, and I know for a fact that GA has improved the life of at least one person I know. I am afraid that some posters will read criticisms of the test, ignore their gambling problems. Hopefully I am wrong.

Regards,
Snowball

P.S. BUMP! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mackthefork]

I got 5 but none of them for the reasons they want me to answer yes, eg a)I have felt remorse, because I have occassionally been undermined by the ignorance of other people, b)I have solved financial problems, because i make money by playing.

GA people have many times stated that its impossible to beat poker long term, that kind of ignorance makes them less than useless in my opinion.

Mack