interesting hand. flop and turn commentary wanted

[amoeba]

sorry at work. no hand history. will put in later maybe.

party 100NL 6max. relavant stacks about 120 or so. villain's preflop raise range is standard.

dealt to amoeba : T /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG calls $1, villain raises to $4, CO calls $4, amoeba calls $4, UTG calls $4.

flop ($16) : 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG bets $3, villain calls $3, amoeba raises to $15, UTG folds, villain call.

turn ($52) : Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

villain checks, amoeba bets $25, villain checkraises to $50.

villain has about $45 left.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Raise preflop. Raise much bigger on the flop. I call the turn and get it all in on the river. Forget about getting away now. But your goal on the flop should have been to make certain a higher flush draw got the heck outta there. I woulda made it $25 or so.

[amoeba]

I should have reraised preflop?

on the turn villain has either AK clubs or QQ and maybe something like AQ with A of clubs.

actually I feel retarded, QQ would have probably raised the flop so thats less likely.



anybody just call the flop?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Oh, I thought it was limped in 2/4, sorry. No, call preflop is fine, but make a big raise on the flop to try to put someone with a one pair hand to a push/fold decision. You are ahead on the flop so don't mind either option.

[yvesaint]

I don't re-raise pre-flop, but that flop is perfect for you. I pot it when it gets to me, so raise to about $20-22? I think that sounds about right?

2/3 pot the turn when he checks it to you, but that mini-raise is freaking me out. The way it goes, I don't think I could get away from this. Would he really call a near-pot-sized raise on the flop with AKc?

[djoyce003]

all you can eat baby.

I am not getting away from this hand here. The only realistic hand that beats you is the AK of clubs since he raised preflop and I just can't see him having those specific 2 cards enough of the time to warrant not pushing here. I think a set of queens is likely. I say you call and just in case pray for the 8 of clubs on the river. He probabaly doesn't think you raised big on the flop on just a draw though so when that queen spikes he might think he's ahead now. I'm getting stacked here everytime if he has AK of clubs.

[amoeba]

AKc is a big hand on the flop.

unless if he puts me on a set, he should call the flop, no?

lots of people on this board would push AKc on the flop after my raise.

[swolfe]

if i play for a flush and hit it, i pretty much don't fold, so...he's representing a flush, and if he's tight, he probably has it. any reads?

his preflop raise and ensuing play make me think AK/images/graemlins/club.gif, but A/images/graemlins/club.gifAx is possible...although i think AA raises this flop...

unlikely, but possible: A/images/graemlins/club.gifQx

hmm, what about QQ? i think QQ would raise the flop too...

i'd call his $25 and call any river push as long as it's not a club or pairing the board. i think that's the only line that will get more money out of hands that you're ahead of. if you were to push the turn, then you're likely only to be called by the nut flush (or possibly QQ, but i think the flush is more likely)...

[amoeba]

after the hand I feel retarded as I felt I should have folded on the turn.

his turn check raise had no folding equity so unless if he is good at post oak bluffing, this is clearly a value raise.

also QQ would have raised the flop and I think AQ with Aclubs would have just called or checkraised all in on the turn.

I feel retarded because he did everything to let me know he has AKc but I ignored it because I said to myself there is only 1 probable hand that beats you.


anyways, I push the turn (might as well charge for paired board, 4th club if he does have those other 2 options), he instacalls and flips AKclubs, no 8clubs on the river.

[jhall23]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I thought it was limped in 2/4, sorry. No, call preflop is fine, but make a big raise on the flop to try to put someone with a one pair hand to a push/fold decision. You are ahead on the flop so don't mind either option.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this hand was limped I don't mind limping along with JTs on the button since it plays pretty well multiway. I wouldn't default raise this (to be clear the hypothetical limped pot). I'm more 50/50 until I get some info on players and how likely they are to fold pf and on the flop. I think it probably doesn't matter too much, but do you think this is leaving money on the table by not raising >50% of the time there?


As for the hand, I agree with a bigger raise on the flop. 25-30 is the range I would go for.

[jonnyUCB]

definitely think you're beat here, just because of the turn ch/r.
As said by others, pound the flop. Although the turn puts u in a weird situation if you cant get allin. Calling isn't so bad either but you are probably a favorite against their hands (original PFR might just be calling with overs). Once he calls your raise, I put him on a draw unless he's incompetent enough not to raise with a hand on a draw heavy board.