A Serious Post about Cheating

[Indiana]

Ok, please let me start by saying that I am diligently working on the pics I am pursing...Nuf bout that...On a more serious note, how does one define cheating? Say u've been in a relationship sometime. Now, God created man a certain way and that is to crave new things, variety, yada yada yada, etc... So how does a man satisfy those needs? There is no doubt that a man loves his wife/gf whatever and love is important...but is it the same as lust? Are these opposing forces? So here's the poll, and please take this seriously. Which of the following are to be considered cheating:

[jackdaniels]

I voted cheating on all of them only because it seems like your approach is all wrong here.

The rule I usually go by is "if I were to tell my wife I did "X" - would she be upset?" If the answer is a resounding yes then "X" is cheating. Mind you, there is a lot to say for not telling - in the vein of "what you don't know won't hurt you".

[HopeydaFish]

I can't believe that someone who has already voted believes that watching a porno and/or jerking to another woman is cheating. If this is a guy, he needs to hand give back his balls (if has any), he doesn't deserve them.

Edit: Looks like JackDaniels was the culprit...and he believes that anything that his wife perceives to be cheating *is* cheating, no matter how ludicrous her perception might be.

Dude, please donate your balls to somebody who can use them properly. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jakethebake]

Dear God! So when I have a second beer before heading home, I'm cheating?

You're taking the woman's approach here. In my mind, cheating has nothing to do with how she feels about it, and everything to do with how I do.

[ QUOTE ]
I voted cheating on all of them only because it seems like your approach is all wrong here.

The rule I usually go by is "if I were to tell my wife I did "X" - would she be upset?" If the answer is a resounding yes then "X" is cheating. Mind you, there is a lot to say for not telling - in the vein of "what you don't know won't hurt you".

[/ QUOTE ]

[trying2learn]

the bottom three choices should have ZERO votes for cheating...this is not up for debate.

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear God! So when I have a second beer before heading home, I'm cheating?

You're taking the woman's approach here. In my mind, cheating has nothing to do with how she feels about it, and everything to do with how I do.


[/ QUOTE ]
I guess I cheat on my wife three times a week when I stop to fish for half an hour instead of going straight home.

[Indiana]

I totally agree with Jake. There are many things that your woman simply does not need to know. If I tell her that I was out playing cards and not really working late, my azz is grass. But, what's the harm and why should I tell her where I really was? I mean, a guy needs bonding time with his boyz and its not her position to tell me what to do anyway...and yes, this is personal exp. talking.

Indy

[trying2learn]

[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with Jake. There are many things that your woman simply does not need to know. If I tell her that I was out playing cards and not really working late, my azz is grass. But, what's the harm and why should I tell her where I really was? I mean, a guy needs bonding time with his boyz and its not her position to tell me what to do anyway...and yes, this is personal exp. talking.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]


sorry to thread hijack - but please don't spell boys with a 'z'.

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear God! So when I have a second beer before heading home, I'm cheating?

You're taking the woman's approach here. In my mind, cheating has nothing to do with how she feels about it, and everything to do with how I do.

[ QUOTE ]
I voted cheating on all of them only because it seems like your approach is all wrong here.

The rule I usually go by is "if I were to tell my wife I did "X" - would she be upset?" If the answer is a resounding yes then "X" is cheating. Mind you, there is a lot to say for not telling - in the vein of "what you don't know won't hurt you".

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I am taking the womens approach here - because that is the person you will have to face with news of whatever you did. Take special note of my "don't ask - don't tell" style policy above, that will ease some of your concerns. But what is or is not cheating remains a decision the couple makes together. FWIW - the list above only includes one item that my wife would consider cheating (the first one) and that is becasue it is the only item on the list that could possibly lead to feelings for the other person which would be detrimental to the marriage (which is OUR definition of cheating).

[Indiana]

Good point...mental note to self.

Indy

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with Jake. There are many things that your woman simply does not need to know. If I tell her that I was out playing cards and not really working late, my azz is grass. But, what's the harm and why should I tell her where I really was? I mean, a guy needs bonding time with his boyz and its not her position to tell me what to do anyway...and yes, this is personal exp. talking.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

You really suck at life don't you? Consider suicide.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dear God! So when I have a second beer before heading home, I'm cheating?

You're taking the woman's approach here. In my mind, cheating has nothing to do with how she feels about it, and everything to do with how I do.


[/ QUOTE ]
I guess I cheat on my wife three times a week when I stop to fish for half an hour instead of going straight home.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on what you do to the fish after you catch them. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I voted cheating on all of them only because it seems like your approach is all wrong here.

The rule I usually go by is "if I were to tell my wife I did "X" - would she be upset?" If the answer is a resounding yes then "X" is cheating. Mind you, there is a lot to say for not telling - in the vein of "what you don't know won't hurt you".

[/ QUOTE ]

I used the same logic. I voted cheating to the first 3, and not cheating to the second 3.

[Indiana]

I do ThinMan, I do...

Indy

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with Jake. There are many things that your woman simply does not need to know. If I tell her that I was out playing cards and not really working late, my azz is grass. But, what's the harm and why should I tell her where I really was? I mean, a guy needs bonding time with his boyz and its not her position to tell me what to do anyway...and yes, this is personal exp. talking.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Find a better woman. The good one's don't try to run your life.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
If I tell her that I was out playing cards and not really working late, my azz is grass.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow. just wow.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

FYI, women have needs too. They cheat just as often. They're just better at keeping secrets.

Don't cheat on her if you're not OK with her cheating on you.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
The rule I usually go by is "if I were to tell my wife I did "X" - would she be upset?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the issue is cheating, not upsetting your wife, how about a better rule? "If I were to tell my wife I did 'X,' would she accuse me of cheating?" To hell with getting upset.

If your wife considers watching porn cheating, its your fault for marrying her.

[Indiana]

Now doesn't our preliminary data look interesting? Look at the flip-flop on the bars between a happy ending and visiting a gentlemen's club. So its ok to have a girl grind her ass on your piece and rub her tits in your face, but its not acceptable to have her massage the full body.

Interesting,

Indy

[Indiana]

are you not married? Why does this suprise u?

Indy

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The rule I usually go by is "if I were to tell my wife I did "X" - would she be upset?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the issue is cheating, not upsetting your wife, how about a better rule? "If I were to tell my wife I did 'X,' would she accuse me of cheating?" To hell with getting upset.

If your wife considers watching porn cheating, its your fault for marrying her.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected, the proper sentence is "would she accuse you of cheating" not "would she be upset".

[Indiana]

Well, FWIW I only thought the first situation was cheating. Popping another girl you know is having a relationship...And we know that this will come back to haunt you and your sig. other. Paying for sex and stuff like that doesn't bother me although I know that most americans are puritan minded in some strange way so I understand the votes on that one. Europeans on the other hand think differently. Its a well known fact that German men in general believe that getting some on the side for $ is actually better for their primary relationships. If data collection were better here I would like to stratify this output by region(US vs EU) and get an interaction pvalue. Unfortunately this cannot be done.

Indy

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't cheat on her if you're not OK with her cheating on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this approach at all. In my mind, not cheating has nothing to do with how it would make her feel. I don't cheat for me, not her.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Now doesn't our preliminary data look interesting? Look at the flip-flop on the bars between a happy ending and visiting a gentlemen's club. So its ok to have a girl grind her ass on your piece and rub her tits in your face, but its not acceptable to have her massage the full body.

Interesting,

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a couple of differences. One is the happy ending. The other is the presence or absence of clothes. There was also no mention of lapdances.

[Indiana]

Yah true, happy ending does not involve clothes for me as the receiving party. However, it also does not involve her looking into my eyes and talking dirty to me while grinding my piece.

Indy

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dear God! So when I have a second beer before heading home, I'm cheating?

You're taking the woman's approach here. In my mind, cheating has nothing to do with how she feels about it, and everything to do with how I do.


[/ QUOTE ]
I guess I cheat on my wife three times a week when I stop to fish for half an hour instead of going straight home.

[/ QUOTE ]

"I said striper not stripper!"

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
Yah true, happy ending does not involve clothes for me as the receiving party. However, it also does not involve her looking into my eyes and talking dirty to me while grinding my piece.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't? You need to find a better massage place.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Yah true, happy ending does not involve clothes for me as the receiving party. However, it also does not involve her looking into my eyes and talking dirty to me while grinding my piece.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You're getting a crappy happy-ending massage then.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't? You need to find a better massage place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! Beat me by seconds! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Indiana]

From what I've heard(:) most massage places are of the asian type where the girl doesnt say much or do much staring at you. There is no fantasy relationship going on like in a strip club. Then again, we have no such places where I live so cannot be sure.

Indy

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Now doesn't our preliminary data look interesting? Look at the flip-flop on the bars between a happy ending and visiting a gentlemen's club. So its ok to have a girl grind her ass on your piece and rub her tits in your face, but its not acceptable to have her massage the full body.

Interesting,

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on what you actually do at the Gentlemen's club. Going to a strip club doesn't necessarily need to involve physical contact. I've only gone to a strip club a dozen or so times in my life, and I've never had a "lap dance". In some places it's not legal for the strippers to touch you (it wasn't legal where I live until a few years ago). Going to a strip club for me was not too much different (other than the naked chicks) than going to a normal bar.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard(:) most massage places are of the asian type where the girl doesnt say much or do much staring at you. There is no fantasy relationship going on like in a strip club. Then again, we have no such places where I live so cannot be sure.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a "fantasdy relationship" at a strip club?-

[Indiana]

Well my understanding is that the girl kinda plays like ur girlfriend for the $20. She gives you some "Company" and spends time actually carrying on a conversation before the grinding begins.

Then again, whatta I know...Im 3 ways phucked to the weekend anyway.

Indy

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard(:) most massage places are of the asian type where the girl doesnt say much or do much staring at you.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? I thought you just said this was the Math Department...which is it?!

[Indiana]

differnt type of asian woman, and its not even close.

Indy

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
differnt type of asian woman, and its not even close.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

You're incredibly ignorant, and its not even close.

[Indiana]

You're incredibly correct, and its not even close. Why u got it out for me anyway Thinman? Just curious.

Indy

[lu_hawk]

first 3 are cheating. going to a strip club is not cheating from a guys perspective but usually is cheating from a girls perspective and i can understand where they are coming from.

[StevieG]

The overwhelming agreement in voting tells you all you need to know. When you violate someone's trust, you're cheating. If there is a chance that you bring home an STD, knock someone up, or get stalked, that's cheating.

The others are just idle distractions, they can't be considered cheating.

If they wind up taking more of your time or income than an idle distraction should, and your spouse is unaware of it, you're certainly violating trust, if not exactly "cheating."

[Indiana]

nice post. OOT'ers are obviously deeper than given credit for.

Indy

[turnipmonster]

I am married, and "hi honey I'm going to be out all night drinking/playing cards" is a routine occurence. I don't think my relationship with my wife is very unique in this regard.

--turnipmonster

[Indiana]

If your wife is cool like that then ok. If she's not then its different and I would expect people to understand that certain women need to be lied to.

Indy

[trying2learn]

[ QUOTE ]
...and I would expect people to understand that certain women need to be lied to.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]


this is interesting to me. i would say that these certain women who need to be lied to, are indeed the same women you shouldn't enter into life long commitments with.

[Brock Landers]

I only voted cheating on the first one. With all of the others, the wife/gf has nothing to worry about. Women need to understand men better about these things.

p.s. my current girlfriend voted the same way (for me). For her, I would have voted much differently. I love double standards!

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
FYI, women have needs too. They cheat just as often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. I think the ratio of total cheating encounters between women and men closer than most think, but I'd be astounded if it was 1:1.

Edit: I found a link on it that suggests while it is close, it's not quite equal.

http://www.meritcare.com/news/world/viewarticle.asp?id=11099

[bdohaney]

You forgot the most important thing... The ring. No ring, no foul. Might piss her off something serious, esp. if you have been dating for a while, but until there is a ring on the finger (be it engagement, or wedding) the REAL commitment just isn't there.

[SammyKid11]

[ QUOTE ]
You forgot the most important thing... The ring. No ring, no foul. Might piss her off something serious, esp. if you have been dating for a while, but until there is a ring on the finger (be it engagement, or wedding) the REAL commitment just isn't there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an incredibly ignorant viewpoint. My girlfriend and I have been together almost five years, lived together almost two years. We are absolutely committed to one another. We choose not to get married because we don't want to go through the expense and hassle of it - also we're pretty put off by the "idea" of marriage since our parents and all the couples we're friends with that ARE married are incredibly miserable. For us, we're as committed as if we were married, but it's not something either of us have the inclination to do. This does not make us "less than" an engaged or married couple (in fact, if anything, we feel it signifies a higher level of security in our relationship that neither of us need the reassurance of marriage to know that we love each other and aren't going anywhere).

I had friends in high school that were ENGAGED - ring and all - and their level of REAL commitment was exactly dick. I also have had friends who were married who cheated on each other all the time - not much commitment there either.

Anyway, just thought you should know I think your arbitrary standard of "the ring" is crap.

BTW - cheating is whatever you and your partner have agreed neither of you will do but one of you does anyway. If she says it's cool for you to bang a whore and you agree, you're not in the wrong for doing so. If you say no strip clubs for either of us and she agrees, you or she are in the wrong for going. Each relationship must establish their own, mutually agreed-upon rules. If you can't find mutual agreement in the rules, you need to end the relationship. If you do find mutual agreement in the rules, stick to them. Period.

[Mason Hellmuth]

This:

[ QUOTE ]
FYI, women have needs too. They cheat just as often. They're just better at keeping secrets.

[/ QUOTE ]
does not imply this:

[ QUOTE ]
Don't cheat on her if you're not OK with her cheating on you.

[/ QUOTE ]
If anything, the correct conclusion is:

[ QUOTE ]
Do cheat on her because you're not OK with her cheating on you.

[/ QUOTE ]
Edit:

[ QUOTE ]
Each relationship must establish their own, mutually agreed-upon rules.

[/ QUOTE ]
This guy won the thread.

[Lawrence Ng]

Serious Answer:

The whole topic of spousal cheating is subjective. Why is that a woman will consider a man flirting with another woman cheating while another man can downright have open sex with her best friend and the wife still consider her husband faithful? It all depends on how the nature of the relationship is defined and what physical and emotional boundaries are set.

Generally speaking, women are much more prone to emotionally cheat first rather than physically cheat. They have their desires for lust, passion and romance that often cannot be fulfilled through their own monogamous relationship.

Men however, are much more prone to physically cheat but remain emotionally strong and bonded to their own wives/spouses. This is why a lot of successful men go bang around, have mistresses, but stay long term with their wives.

Lawrence

[bdohaney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You forgot the most important thing... The ring. No ring, no foul. Might piss her off something serious, esp. if you have been dating for a while, but until there is a ring on the finger (be it engagement, or wedding) the REAL commitment just isn't there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an incredibly ignorant viewpoint. My girlfriend and I have been together almost five years, lived together almost two years. We are absolutely committed to one another. We choose not to get married because we don't want to go through the expense and hassle of it - also we're pretty put off by the "idea" of marriage since our parents and all the couples we're friends with that ARE married are incredibly miserable. For us, we're as committed as if we were married, but it's not something either of us have the inclination to do. This does not make us "less than" an engaged or married couple (in fact, if anything, we feel it signifies a higher level of security in our relationship that neither of us need the reassurance of marriage to know that we love each other and aren't going anywhere).

I had friends in high school that were ENGAGED - ring and all - and their level of REAL commitment was exactly dick. I also have had friends who were married who cheated on each other all the time - not much commitment there either.

Anyway, just thought you should know I think your arbitrary standard of "the ring" is crap.

BTW - cheating is whatever you and your partner have agreed neither of you will do but one of you does anyway. If she says it's cool for you to bang a whore and you agree, you're not in the wrong for doing so. If you say no strip clubs for either of us and she agrees, you or she are in the wrong for going. Each relationship must establish their own, mutually agreed-upon rules. If you can't find mutual agreement in the rules, you need to end the relationship. If you do find mutual agreement in the rules, stick to them. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well spoken, and I stand corrected. That was my viewpoint prior to being married, probably largely resulting from the fact that prior to being engaged was never really in a committed relationship. But, what you said is right on. Cheating is whenever you go outside of the conduct set by established rules. Be it relationships, poker or monopoly, if you go outside of or violate those rules, you are cheating.

[Chris Dow]

FYT

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
If your wife is cool like that then ok. If she's not then its different and I would expect people to understand that certain women need to be lied to.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in agreement with Turnip on this: I'm married and I get out to play cards with the boys about once a week AND I don't have to lie to her to do so.

No idea how old u are or how long u've been married or if there are kids or whatever, but in all seriousness (OOT is clearly the wrong place for this, sorry) - you and your wife need to sort some [censored] out. I don't think that "certain women need to be lied to" is correct. You should be able to discuss your [censored] and work out agreements.

Should you be allowed to go out, drink, play cards, etc from time to time? HELL YES!
Should you be able to do it any time you damn well plesae? HELL NO!

Clearly there's a ton of history there that we don't have, but after the threads I've seen you start, you clearly need to figure some [censored] out with your wife.

ThisHo

I find it very, very easy to be true.