Laying down trips?

At what point is it right to lay down top trips + top kicker on a paired board? I see players overplaying this hand all too often and losing huge amounts of chips to another player who hit a full house (either with a pocket pair or otherwise)... just the other day I saw AQ checkraise a flop Q 5 Q only to find that his opponent was holding 5 5, another time I saw AK drawn all-in on a flop K K 6 by a player who loose-called K 6 to a pre-flop raise. Top trips + top kicker is a pretty beastly hand when there are no straight or flush draws on the table, but it seems to lose quite a bit... at the same time, folding it to a raise is going to result in getting bluffed out of a lot of big pots. Any advice would be appreciated.

[meow_meow]

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At what point is it right to lay down top trips + top kicker on a paired board? I see players overplaying this hand all too often and losing huge amounts of chips to another player who hit a full house (either with a pocket pair or otherwise)... just the other day I saw AQ checkraise a flop Q 5 Q only to find that his opponent was holding 5 5, another time I saw AK drawn all-in on a flop K K 6 by a player who loose-called K 6 to a pre-flop raise. Top trips + top kicker is a pretty beastly hand when there are no straight or flush draws on the table, but it seems to lose quite a bit... at the same time, folding it to a raise is going to result in getting bluffed out of a lot of big pots. Any advice would be appreciated.

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If we are talking about a limit cash game, the answer is obviously never, unless there are multiple bets in front of you and a 4 flush or 4 straight on the board.

NL you can probably lay down more often if you have a decent read.

Basically, you might occassionally lose big pots, but much more often you will beat someone with a worse kicker (or just a worse hand).

[Ross]

There are some situations in HL were frankly there is no getting away from the hand if someone has flopped the nuts you are going to pay them off (or outdraw them.) Sure if there is a straight or flush out I can put it down but otherwise I'm toast unless I pick up a pretty big tell on my opponent.

regards

Ross

[XXXNoahXXX]

Laying down your hand in either of those spots in gonna be damn near impossible unless you have played a lot of hands with the opponent and know that they are a rock. I mean any preflop action from 55 could just as easily be 44-99, so putting him on 55 when the flop is Q5Q is very hard indeed. He could just be bluffing at the Q or not giving you credit for it with a mid PP. Limit is obviously easier, you can just slow it down if you smell a rat. NL, If I bet the flop and get raised, I'm probably pushing all-in. AK on a flop of KK6, your more likely to get all-in with KQ or KJ, and take down some big pots. If you in the opposite boat, I think that is where you can save yourself some money. If you hold KJ on a KK6 flop, I'd be far less willing to commit a big portion of my stack and I'd be playing for a smaller pot finish.

If this wasnt a problem in poker, we would all be rich...
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I've been on these boards about 2 weeks and I think I know the answer.

It depends.

Am I right?

I agree with another poster that you can't fold this in Limit, you'll get paid off often with trips-lower kicker. In No-Limit, post-flop, if it's bet in front of you, you raise, and are heavily re-raised then you have a much better idea that you could be up against a boat.

[dogmeat]

The times when I get busted in NL games is when I am the aggressor preflop, flop a set when I hold top kicker in my hand, and get raised on the turn or the river when I've already got most of my stack in the middle.

It happens. It's why some people will play a small pair for a decent raise in NL. Most of the time this is wrong, but players work on past experience, and if they have hit a flop and busted somebody, they often keep tring - remembering the one time it happened.

I guess this all means I have no decent advice for this problem. It happens.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Pepsquad]

Generally speaking, when I flop top set, top kicker in NL, I'm going broke. As has already been stated, there are certain hands you SHOULD go broke with. If you're not going broke with this hand (when the board is NOT 4 flushed or four to the straight) I'd start questioning whether you're making as much with this hand as you should be.

Pep.

[wadea]

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Generally speaking, when I flop top set, top kicker in NL, I'm going broke. As has already been stated, there are certain hands you SHOULD go broke with. If you're not going broke with this hand (when the board is NOT 4 flushed or four to the straight) I'd start questioning whether you're making as much with this hand as you should be.

Pep.

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I agree. If you think your read on anybody is good enough to lay this down, I'd say you're a fool. If you're really beat, you have to go broke with top-set-ace-kicker every time. Remember that, in addition to almost certainly having the best hand, if villain has the under full you still have some outs to win and others to tie.

-w.a.