Help . . . I lost all my $$ with AK again.

[Grisgra]

Please tell me what I did wrong, if anything. Just really lost on how to play ANY hand postflop. Stupid NL . . .

***** Hand History for Game 2501567513 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:14667750 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Monday, August 08, 20:39:47 EDT 2005
Table Table 12231 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: TTAAZ ( $380 )
Seat 2: Kalani182 ( $843 )
Seat 3: pingshark ( $837 )
Seat 6: Grisgra ( $770 )
Seat 7: golfinguy ( $1245 )
Seat 8: feefeegee ( $915 )
Seat 9: yunonymous ( $515 )
Seat 10: kid_ghost ( $2495 )
Trny:14667750 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Grisgra [ Kh Ac ]
Kalani182 folds.
pingshark folds.
Grisgra raises [85].
golfinguy folds.
feefeegee calls [85].
yunonymous folds.
kid_ghost folds.
TTAAZ calls [55].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, Jh, Ah ]
TTAAZ checks.
Grisgra bets [175].
feefeegee calls [175].
TTAAZ folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
Grisgra is all-In [510]
feefeegee calls [510].
** Dealing River ** [ Ts ]
Grisgra shows [ Kh, Ac ] a pair of aces.
feefeegee shows [ 7h, Qh ] a flush, ace high.
feefeegee wins 1640 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
Grisgra finished in eighth place.
>You have options at walk a tight rope Table!.
Grisgra has left the table.

[TStokes]

I would raise to about 120 preflop. I would probably play its the same as you did after the flop.

[lorinda]

You rivered the wrong ten. You should have rivered the ten of hearts.

Lori

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
You rivered the wrong ten. You should have rivered the ten of hearts.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Anything else? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[lorinda]

That's definitely the worst thing you did in this pot.

I don't think anything else can be particuarly critisised, other than it's easier to think about for us if you cut the results out of the post and have a title along the lines of "AK hand, postflop play" rather than one where we know the result.

Lori

[Grisgra]

Let's say I didn't have the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif in this hand. Do I go all-in on the turn? Bet/call? Check/fold to an all-in?

Maybe it's just the Party structure but it's annoying that if I raise preflop and make a continuation bet on the flop, by the time the turn comes around the pot is bigger than my stack and I've got 2:1 on any call I make. Meaning that with TPTK, I'm going broke.

[citanul]

I would push this on the flop.

citanul

[Grisgra]

Can you explain your reasoning? Is it that if I get called, I'm pot committed anyway, so why not just push?

[KingDan]

Citanul, you do not think you can try to 'milk' this at all?

I am thinkingthis is similar to WAWB, because as nearly often as he turns a flush we river one?

And if there is no flush on turn we are pushing anyway.

[Paul Thomson]

why don't you just check the turn. it'll appear as scary to him as to you. if he goes all-in, then you can reeavulate. if he checks, then i'd put a bet in on the river.

the same situation is even better if you have position. i check the turn hoping to induce a bluff on the river. I'm not sure if this +EV, but it seems to work at the levels i play...20's and 30's.

gl

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
I would push this on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I don't like this. Are you that scared of the flush draw (or that confident that AT isn't going anywhere) that you want to make a 3x overbet? There's certainly a reasonable amount in the pot now, so it's not awful if we take it down now, but I think we can probably extract more value on average by making plays other than pushing.

[Michael C.]

Why? Doesn't villian figure to have a weaker ace as often as a flush draw? And if he did have a flush draw, why would you force him out?

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would push this on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I don't like this. Are you that scared of the flush draw (or that confident that AT isn't going anywhere) that you want to make a 3x overbet? There's certainly a reasonable amount in the pot now, so it's not awful if we take it down now, but I think we can probably extract more value on average by making plays other than pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't push this everytime, but I've been working this play into my game some lately for variety. It works here for a few reasons in no particular order:

1. We very likely have the best hand.
2. The board is highly coordinated - both the flush and broadway draws are out there. In addition, some likely hands we could be up against include AJ and AT - let's make them pay extra to draw to the straight.
3. Deceptiveness.
4. Poor players at this level don't like to fold weak aces anyways.
5. The pot is decent, nothing wrong with taking it down now.
6. The turn gets sticky with the pot:my stack ratio when I'm called.
7. Playing the turn OOP like the OP can suck.

Grisgra, I think you played it fine. I'm actually more likely to push the turn without the K of /images/graemlins/heart.gif. When I have it, I'm ok with someone drawing cheaper to a lone heart.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't push this everytime, but I've been working this play into my game some lately for variety.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point; I guess I'm thinking more about what my standard play here is.

[ QUOTE ]
4. Poor players at this level don't like to fold weak aces anyways.
5. The pot is decent, nothing wrong with taking it down now.
6. The turn gets sticky with the pot:my stack ratio when I'm called.
7. Playing the turn OOP like the OP can suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are all decent reasons. Pushing is obviously going to be pretty profitable, I just usually try to milk a little more. Nice post.