10/20: all i do is pay off turn raises

[yanicehand]

Hero in both of these is pretty basic tag over a few hundred hands. Anything you do differently here?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, MP folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

HAND TWO
Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

***edit***
How bad is the river donk? and then calling the bet? I think they're both pretty bad in retrospect.

[Drontier]

i call both in a heartbeat

[jba]

these two hands look fine to me.

[mdeck]

I'm just starting to play 10/20, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something obvious or not but in Hand 1 is it better to only complete preflop and not raise?

[Drontier]

i think wiht one limp i may raise, cuz the fold equity compared to size of pot is large. by raising u take lead of the hand. do u want to do that with such a good multiway hand? its close, but i prefer completing

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just starting to play 10/20, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something obvious or not but in Hand 1 is it better to only complete preflop and not raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
I raise KQs there every time.

[yanicehand]

I've been reading a lot of stuff lately that has been dealing with raising from the blinds. Me and Drontier talked about this last night and basically agreed that we don't raise from the blinds without a very strong hand, or a very strong multiway hand - the idea being that if you raise with KQ here you make it much more difficult to win with a pair, as you give odds to people to draw and narrow your ability to win by building a big pot. Not sure if I'm taking it too far, but I've been doing this a lot lately even with AQo in a 4 way hand.

[steaknshake925]

i often raise pf in hand 1.

its possible to fold the turn in hand 1 but u would need a pretty solid read. after ur turn call, the river call is easy.

hand 2 looks good the whole way. u hav to pay off the river raise here.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]

***edit***
How bad is the river donk? and then calling the bet? I think they're both pretty bad in retrospect.


[/ QUOTE ]

like I said, I like both hands but this is the decision I stewed over the most. I think it has to be bet/fold or bet/call, it sucks for this to check through. I personally can't fold this for one bet but that might be the right line.

[Buck_65]

Raise preflop in hand 1

[yanicehand]

if it were NOT suited, is this a raise even with the loss of multiway value?

[arkady]

this is an old topic. Do not worry your head about providing people with value or incentive to chase. Those that are hell bent on chasing will do so regardless of the pot odds - raise strong hands from the blind and thats that. Along with hands like TT, KQ, AJ - etc (depending on the number of people). Just because you raise does not mean you have to win the pot or even fire on the flop.

[mdeck]

That's what I was thinking. I've been only completing w/ KQo in multiway pots, but wouldnt KQs be a strong pair hand and strong multiway hand, which makes raising preflop more attractive?

[Buck_65]

[ QUOTE ]
if it were NOT suited, is this a raise even with the loss of multiway value?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd raise KQo here preflop as well. You want to knock out the BB if possible, and you have a dominating hand anyway. Also, it isn't difficult to get away from your hand if the flop misses you. With 1 more limper I'd complete KQo but still raise KQs every time.

[ghostface]

KQs is just a good hand that should be raised everywhere if you are putting in the first raise.

[yanicehand]

These replies have been really good, and I appreciate the help. Little things like this add up and its good to hear other people's know-how. Thanks again.