Turn and River- what level of agression?

[Casey]

5limpers to me and I complete in the small blind with j-8 of spades. BB raises. BB is fairly new and known to sme of the others at the table to be gambler, I have never played with him before. All call his raise. For those of you that frequent CP, his name is Simon and he deals BJack at Mystic, from the conversation around the table,he mostly plays stud.

Flop comes 10-9-3 with two spades. I check, bb bets and everyone calls, I check-raise, bb three bets and everyone calls.

Turn is Q hearts, completing my straight, i check bb bets, 2 caller, i check raise, bb 3 bets, lose both callers, i four bet and bb five bets. This is where I am wondering. I am ahead of everything but KJ and I have the spade redraw. By this time we are heads up and I could have raised again. Who stops at 5 bets here?

River is A or spade and I bet out and get raised. I call. Who pops it another time?

[Nottom]

I think your turn play seems fine since KJ is certainly a possibility. On the river, I would tend to pop him again since its hard to imagine him pushing just a flush draw so hard on the turn and you know he can't have had a redraw since you hold the Jack. Most likely he has KJ or is way over playing a set here.

[Homer]

Preflop: Fine

Flop: I would definitely cap. You have a 15 outer, which makes you around even-money to make your hand by the river. Against 6 opponents I think not capping is a big mistake.

Turn: There is no way BB was pumping KJ on the flop unless he is a maniac. He might do it if they were both spades, but they can't be since you have the jack of spades. I would go at least a couple more bets thinking that I am likely to be best (BB could have AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, KQs, AQs, etc), and if not I have a redraw to the flush.

River: Hmm, he raised again. Maybe he did have KJ and has extended his straight. Maybe he is still pushing a set. It seems to be increasing likely, though, that he has exactly KsQs, unless he is a complete maniac. I would raise one more time, assuming that he is overplaying something I can beat, and call a four-bet if raised again.

I'm almost certain that you lost to K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif if this guy wasn't a maniac.

-- Homer

[pudley4]

Canterbury has a bet-and-4-raises cap, so he could (and probably would) be reraised on the flop. They'll all call anyway, so 4-bet here.

I'd go to 6 bets on the turn (and expect him to go to 7).

On the river, I'd 3-bet and call his 4-bet.

[Casey]

He was a tad maniacle. He had KJ off. The preflop raise and post flop action really had me confused here. KJ did not dawn on me until the 5th bet went in at the turn. Even then it seemed unlikely. I reallythought that i was up against a set and praying the board not to pair.

I would have bet out my straight on the river unless the board paired. Glad the spade came.

BTW I only called the 5 bet on the turn and called the raise on the river.

[Nottom]

so 5-betting on the turn with top pair, 2nd kicker and a flush draw isn't maniacal?

[Louie Landale]

I would have capped the flop with your monster draw.

Anyway, its tough on the turn. With your spade draw I'd have 6-bet it since its too likely he has a big set.

On the river... What K high or Q high flush could he possibly have just made, but was worth 5-betting on the turn? If he's a REAL gambler he MAY have KsQs, but then if he's a real gambler he's more likely to still be flailing away with his straight, since he has no reason to fear you made a flush (Js8s is the only flush you could have made worth 4-betting the turn). I think its worth a raise on the river.

The over-all principal here is this: gambling types can find LOTS more hands worth gambling with than they can find nut hands. Otherwise, they wouldn't be "gambling" types. Weight of numbers usually means put in at least one more raise than you would against more sensible types.

- Louie

[Homer]

Well, hehe...it's all relative. Compared to the other hands he could have had here, it is the least maniacal. To me he wouldn't be a true maniac if he held KsQs, he would just be someone who is way, way, way too aggressive and can't take the hint that he's behind and that his raises aren't +EV (if he knows what EV is, that is).

-- Homer