Steve Young vs Dan Marino [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

SomethingClever

08-08-2005, 06:40 PM

I really liked Steve Young. Accurate, smart passer, good scrambler, tough player despite his body breaking down toward the end of his career.

Classy guy, too.

Marino was sort of like vanilla ice cream. Good, but bland at the same time. Insert Peyton Manning comparison here.

I take Young.

Jack of Arcades

08-08-2005, 06:42 PM

Don't diss Peyton, he's hilarious. CUT THAT MEAT! CUT THAT MEAT!

siccjay

08-08-2005, 07:01 PM

Marino was the man! BLAND! Haven't you seen Ace Ventura?

thatpfunk

08-08-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the answer is clearly john elway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or at least a couple dozen other capable QBs throughout history.

Young/Marino are nothing without their precious "stats". Hell, give me Jim McMahon.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? This is about two QBs who were just inducted in to the Hall. Also, your last comment leads me to believe you are mentally retarded. You do know Steve Young won a ring, right?

LargeCents

08-09-2005, 01:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the answer is clearly john elway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or at least a couple dozen other capable QBs throughout history.

Young/Marino are nothing without their precious "stats". Hell, give me Jim McMahon.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? This is about two QBs who were just inducted in to the Hall. Also, your last comment leads me to believe you are mentally retarded. You do know Steve Young won a ring, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve Young
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Doug Williams
etc

Journeyman quarterbacks with a single superbowl ring. All I can say is that Young was fortunate to land himself in the middle of one of football's greatest dynasties, rather than finishing his career in Tampa Bay.

If bozos like these get into Canton, it's clear the "hall of fame" is a joke. Aren't those yellow jackets the same ones the ABC commentators used to wear back in the 70's?

andyfox

08-09-2005, 02:27 AM

Nine people (to this point) would rather have the inferior quarterback?

Jack of Arcades

08-09-2005, 02:52 AM

So wait... a journeyman is a guy that plays for two teams in 15 years, and 13 years for one team?

uw_madtown

08-09-2005, 04:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Steve Young
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Doug Williams
etc

Journeyman quarterbacks with a single superbowl ring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your take on Steve Young is really, really terrible.

Not a journeyman. Not a one-season wonder like those guys either -- Niners were in contention for a LONG time.

Young clearly belongs in the hall. It's not even close, do you see why, I'll let others elaborate, you should seriously consider killing yourself, yadda yadda yadda.

BadBoyBenny

08-09-2005, 07:50 AM

I was one of them. I guess I picked Marino as better because of his statistics. However I think Young would give me a better chance of winning games. If I was a coach, I would pick him because of his versatility and ability to create something out of a broken play. Maybe I should have put Young as the better QB.

I think of pure passing skills when rating someone as a QB, but not when rating someone as a football player.

ucfryan

08-09-2005, 09:12 AM

Since I've been a Niners fan all my life I gotta go with Steve. You can throw Marinos statistics at me all day, but he never won the big one and he's just a really dry type of guy. LargeCents, you have no idea what you're talking about

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 10:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So wait... a journeyman is a guy that plays for two teams in 15 years, and 13 years for one team?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does how many teams have to do with whether he's ajourneyman or not? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

brettbrettr

08-09-2005, 11:17 AM

There are two reasons Young > Marino:

1. Young beat the Jets less often
2. Young never did this:

"With the clock ticking down, Marino hurried to the line and pretended to spike the ball into the ground, but instead faked it, and when the Jets were caught napping Ingram snuck behind the defense and was wide open to catch Marino's deceptive pass."

End of discussion.

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 11:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There are two reasons Young > Marino:

1. Young beat the Jets less often
2. Young never did this:

"With the clock ticking down, Marino hurried to the line and pretended to spike the ball into the ground, but instead faked it, and when the Jets were caught napping Ingram snuck behind the defense and was wide open to catch Marino's deceptive pass."

End of discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

You just described reasons Marino > Young. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

brettbrettr

08-09-2005, 11:20 AM

You're completely missimg my point. By my logic I could make a decent argument that Dayne > Payton. Its not very good logic, of course, but its propietary and ownership is important in a free market society.

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 11:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You're completely missimg my point. By my logic I could make a decent argument that Dayne > Payton. Its not very good logic, of course, but its propietary and ownership is important in a free market society.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'm still missing your point. Are you voting Young or Marino? Are you saying Marino fans have these as their only two arguments? I'm not all a Marino fan, but that's very silly.

trying2learn

08-09-2005, 11:27 AM

he's a jet fan...it's a funny post.

i think my point in this thread is that MOST of the people who picked young would ABSOLUTELY have picked marino if the two qb's career paths were switched. it's tough to compare the two because honestly - if you're results oriented you're going to pick young everytime because of jewelery.

if marino played his entire career for the 49er's, we may be talking about him being the hands down greatest ever...and that's coming from an elway fan.

wh1t3bread

08-09-2005, 11:28 AM

I think he is a Jets fan and therefore dislikes Marino and voted for Young.

andyfox

08-09-2005, 11:39 AM

Yeah, we're always tempted to say "Marino" when asked who was the greatest QB because he threw better than anyone. Our image of Steve Young is probably one of a really clever guy who learned a lot watching Montana, another QB who knew how to win despite not having a super arm.

Patrick del Poker Grande

08-09-2005, 12:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if marino spent half his career sitting behind Joe Montana, we may be not even talking about him

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP

porkchop

08-09-2005, 12:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So wait... a journeyman is a guy that plays for two teams in 15 years, and 13 years for one team?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does how many teams have to do with whether he's ajourneyman or not? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing for numerous teams is the very definition of a journeyman.

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 12:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So wait... a journeyman is a guy that plays for two teams in 15 years, and 13 years for one team?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does how many teams have to do with whether he's ajourneyman or not? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing for numerous teams is the very definition of a journeyman.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't.

porkchop

08-09-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So wait... a journeyman is a guy that plays for two teams in 15 years, and 13 years for one team?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does how many teams have to do with whether he's ajourneyman or not? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing for numerous teams is the very definition of a journeyman.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif Did you have too much to drink on your birthday yesterday?

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So wait... a journeyman is a guy that plays for two teams in 15 years, and 13 years for one team?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does how many teams have to do with whether he's ajourneyman or not? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing for numerous teams is the very definition of a journeyman.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif Did you have too much to drink on your birthday yesterday?

[/ QUOTE ]

A journeyman just means he's been around a long time. He's an experienced guy that's competent but no more. It has nothing to do with how many teams he's been on. Hell the term is used both in and outside of sports in contexts where teams aren't even involved. For instance in boxing you have journeyman fighters. It's a common term, and its definition is pretty much the same in football as it is anywhere else. It may happen that most journeyman players have been with multiple teams, but it's not a prerequisite.

porkchop

08-09-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So wait... a journeyman is a guy that plays for two teams in 15 years, and 13 years for one team?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does how many teams have to do with whether he's ajourneyman or not? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing for numerous teams is the very definition of a journeyman.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif Did you have too much to drink on your birthday yesterday?

[/ QUOTE ]

A journeyman just means he's been around a long time. He's an experienced guy that's competent but no more. It has nothing to do with how many teams he's been on. Hell the term is used both in and outside of sports in contexts where teams aren't even involved. For instance in boxing you have journeyman fighters. It's a common term, and its definition is pretty much the same in football as it is anywhere else. It may happen that most journeyman players have been with multiple teams, but it's not a prerequisite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very few marginal talents stay with one team in sports these days due to salary cap restrictions. Marginal, just adequate talent gets moved. The term is used precisely as you mentioned in boxing, but boxing is an individual sport.Don't see how you use it as a basis of comparison with the major team sports. Please give me an athlete who in your mind has journeyman status and has not played for several teams.

Soul Daddy

08-09-2005, 01:44 PM

But technically, jake is right. I do think it tends to be understood or used as someone who has never found a home, but it really means someone who is experienced, just not spectacular.

I don't understand the results. Can someone explain how they'd rather have Young, but consider Marino better? Just because he threw a better ball doesn't mean he's the better QB.

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But technically, jake is right. I do think it tends to be understood or used as someone who has never found a home, but it really means someone who is experienced, just not spectacular.

I don't understand the results. Can someone explain how they'd rather have Young, but consider Marino better? Just because he threw a better ball doesn't mean he's the better QB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I'm not a Marino fan, but I'd go with him as the better QB partly because of his ability to throw and partly because he was such a competitor. 37 comebacks, second only to Elway?

Patrick del Poker Grande

08-09-2005, 01:54 PM

From Merriam-Webster (http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=journeyman&x=0&y=0):

Journeyman: a worker who has learned a trade and works for another person usually by the day'

This implies that he's going from employer to employer, job to job, team to team.

brettbrettr

08-09-2005, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone explain how they'd rather have Young, but consider Marino better?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you ran a west coast offesne you'd rather have Young. That wouldn't make him necessarily better than Marino, but better for the system. This isn't my opinion, but its valid.

Soul Daddy

08-09-2005, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, I'm not a Marino fan, but I'd go with him as the better QB partly because of his ability to throw and partly because he was such a competitor. 37 comebacks, second only to Elway?

[/ QUOTE ]
But did you vote for Young as the QB you'd rather have while saying Marino was better?

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
From Merriam-Webster (http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=journeyman&x=0&y=0):

Journeyman: a worker who has learned a trade and works for another person usually by the day'

This implies that he's going from employer to employer, job to job, team to team.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it doesn't imply anything. Stop adding to the definition.

Dictionary.com

[ QUOTE ]
1. One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ.
2. An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker.

[/ QUOTE ]

porkchop

08-09-2005, 02:02 PM

Soul Daddy

08-09-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can someone explain how they'd rather have Young, but consider Marino better?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you ran a west coast offesne you'd rather have Young. That wouldn't make him necessarily better than Marino, but better for the system. This isn't my opinion, but its valid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Eh, I interpreted the question as 'if I were the GM of a team who would I rather have' instead of 'my favorite team'. In the case of the latter, your point is taken.

McGahee

08-09-2005, 03:32 PM

I've never been a huge Marino guy, but he has the edge over Young and it's not that close.
If you're comparing Marino to Montana you might be able to use the jewelry argument. But Young wasn't exactly Mr. Clutch either - he lost a ton of home playoff games that his team was favored to win.

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 03:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've never been a huge Marino guy, but he has the edge over Young and it's not that close.
If you're comparing Marino to Montana you might be able to use the jewelry argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

Montana > Marino > Young

And Marino's closer to Montana than he is Young.

thatpfunk

08-09-2005, 04:34 PM

Wikipedia: A journeyman is a tradesman or craftsman who may well have completed an apprenticeship but is not yet able to set up their own workshop as a master. In parts of Europe, as in later medieval Germany, spending time as a journeyman, moving from one town to another to gain experience of different workshops, was an important part of the training of an aspirant master. <font color="#666666"> In later medieval England, however, most journeymen remained as employees throughout their careers, lacking the financial resources to set up their own workshops. </font>

It seems it can be either. I always interpreted Journeyman as an older player who had spent his career on several teams, never really finding a home.

McGahee

08-09-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Montana > Marino > Young

And Marino's closer to Montana than he is Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's kinda what I said.

jakethebake

08-09-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wikipedia: A journeyman is a tradesman or craftsman who may well have completed an apprenticeship but is not yet able to set up their own workshop as a master. In parts of Europe, as in later medieval Germany, spending time as a journeyman, moving from one town to another to gain experience of different workshops, was an important part of the training of an aspirant master. <font color="#666666"> In later medieval England, however, most journeymen remained as employees throughout their careers, lacking the financial resources to set up their own workshops. </font>

It seems it can be either. I always interpreted Journeyman as an older player who had spent his career on several teams, never really finding a home.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose if we were in Medevial Germany it could. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

hoopsie44

08-09-2005, 05:38 PM

Gotta love these boards. We've gone from star quarterbacks to medieval training requirements all in one thread.

trying2learn

08-09-2005, 05:40 PM

except this isn't OOT.

hoopsie44

08-09-2005, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
except this isn't OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I just realized that. Too much time on the board I guess.

trying2learn

08-09-2005, 05:54 PM

you and me both...

ucfryan

08-09-2005, 09:48 PM

Young:

http://images.nfl.com/xxxvi/history/images/rings/sb29.jpg
http://www.glossynews.com/artman/uploads/lombardi_trophy.jpg

Marino:

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/03/e1/32584971-resized200.jpg

touchfaith

08-09-2005, 09:56 PM

I would have to take Marino.

Good arguements have been made on each side and I can agree with most all of them in some fashion or another...

I think for me what it boils down to and how I would campare them is to answer one question:

- What would each of them do on the others team?

...ie, If Young was on the Dolphins, in the same time period, and Marino on the 49ers'

I think when we do that, it is clear for most to see that Marino would have absolutely thrived with that much better 49er's overall team, while Young, imo, would not with the Dolphins.