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View Full Version : 5/10 pounding with JJ

donger
08-08-2005, 01:51 PM
BB is 22/15/2.2/36 after 1400 hands.

Comments on F/T/R please..

Note: I am betting a ton of rivers here, just not this one.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (8.20 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB
baronzeus
08-08-2005, 01:55 PM
I'd bet any river but that one. I think BB will raise with a middle pair often enough to make this profitable.
sammy_g
08-08-2005, 01:57 PM
No way I bet this river. There are no draws on this board. BB is a favorite to have a queen in my opinion. If he had middle pair, he just made trips. About the only thing we beat is a 4 (not likely for a player this tight to call a raise with a 4 in his hand) or a smaller pocket pair.
Klepton
08-08-2005, 02:03 PM
with a 2.2 aggression, i'm betting this river
donger
08-08-2005, 02:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
No way I bet this river. There are no draws on this board. BB is a favorite to have a queen in my opinion. If he had middle pair, he just made trips. About the only thing we beat is a 4 (not likely for a player this tight to call a raise with a 4 in his hand) or a smaller pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking exactly.. That 8 just hosed our hand vs Villain's likely range.
sammy_g
08-08-2005, 02:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
with a 2.2 aggression, i'm betting this river

[/ QUOTE ]
You are a better player than me, so help me understand. With this specific flop (no draws), I'm not sure what villain has that we beat on the river. The guy has 22 VP$IP. I'm not sure what hands have a 4 that he calls in the BB against an UTG raiser. Does he have a smaller pocket pair that often?

For what's it's worth, my aggression is about 2.2. If I'm villain in this hand, a bet here against me is -EV.
donger
08-08-2005, 02:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
with a 2.2 aggression, i'm betting this river

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, I think this is pretty bad..

You're getting CR'd by any 8 and called by any Q. What hand are you putting him on? There's very few draws that he could have been fastplaying on the flop, and even if there were draws, he's not calling with a busted one.
Haupt_234
08-08-2005, 02:23 PM
What is the reason for the turn raise? To push the villan off a weak queen? And if so, why bet the river when he calls?

Haupt_234
donger
08-08-2005, 02:35 PM
I'm raising for value on the turn. BB is doing this plenty of times with an 8 or a 4. The board is dry, and he probably figures me for some kind of whiffed Ace. The turn sticks multiple draws on the board, plus I could be raising a hand like AK for a free showdown, so he will probably call me down anyway.
donger
08-08-2005, 02:54 PM
Also, for the record, if the Q is a K, I'm definitely not raising this turn.
ggbman
08-08-2005, 03:17 PM
I like the check behind here, a lot of the time you have been rivered or forced a queen into submission.
Haupt_234
08-08-2005, 03:57 PM
I don't have this raise in my arsenal and I really want to understand it more. If I was looking for a value bet, I would just 3bet the flop with position because I would feel I am behind a lot of the time.

I realize this c/r can be done with a lone 8 on his part, and that 3betting the flop would give him a chance to fold his weaker holding (most likely on the turn) but I wouldn't feel confident enough raising the turn and betting the river given the villans stats...

Haupt_234
donger
08-08-2005, 04:55 PM
This board is particularly dry against a tightish player's UTG raising standards. A good player is going to be more likely to fastplay a pair worse than queens, putting me on a range of mostly whiffed broadway hands.

It's not like the villain isn't going to have a Q here sometimes, but most of the time this is a hand like J8, A4, 66, etc, trying to push me off of overcards or a middling pair.
sammy_g
08-08-2005, 05:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It's not like the villain isn't going to have a Q here sometimes, but most of the time this is a hand like J8, A4, 66, etc, trying to push me off of overcards or a middling pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this player will call an UTG raise with J8 or A4. 66 probably, but he is tight.
donger
08-08-2005, 05:11 PM
If either were suited, he's calling for sure. A8o is probable also.
Haupt_234
08-08-2005, 06:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This board is particularly dry against a tightish player's UTG raising standards. A good player is going to be more likely to fastplay a pair worse than queens, putting me on a range of mostly whiffed broadway hands.

It's not like the villain isn't going to have a Q here sometimes, but most of the time this is a hand like J8, A4, 66, etc, trying to push me off of overcards or a middling pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

Would you still play the line against a LAG player? A LPP player?

Haupt_234
donger
08-08-2005, 06:58 PM
LAG yes, LPP, no. I actually start to hate my hand v a loose-passive, but call down.