Knowing when to fold 'em

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I wanted to start a thread to get advice on knowing when you should fold your very good hands (especially pre-flop.)

The two hands I hate to see pf are AK and (especially) QQ when there is interest in the hand by other players. I personally lose often w/ these 2 hands.

In one of Sklansk's books (Tourn Pkr Adv Plyrs I think) he says something like he has often seen people bet and get raised (called???) by 2+ people, and inevitably one person had AA, every time.

Getting away from a GREAT hand is difficult, but an important and necessary skill if you want to be a good player.

Occassionally some donk raises w/ his Ax and thinks its the nuts, but I think more often you're raised by a dominating hand. I also think that AK is not as strong as everyone here seems to advcate "...limp w/ JJ... push w/ AK..." afterall JJ (or any pocket pair) is a slight favorite to AK... as we all know.

An epiphany I had this weekend, which is probably a no-brainer to many of you, is that I need to be prepared to throw away QQ if an A or K flops. I said to myself "... what are the chances he had the ace..." and I pushed... he had the ace. Then I realized maybe I should have put a reasonable bet in and folded if raised, and check/fold if called, afterall MOST PEOPLE PLAY ACES AND KINGS, so it is very likely that your beaten.

So do you think AK, QQ- is dominated often enough to fold pf if more than one other person is aggressively betting/calling (assuming early on w/ many people still at the table)?

Lets here what you all have to say...
(please explain your thought process as to why you advocate a certain action so that this can be constructive for everyone)

[tigerite]

You can't always guarantee that an A or K dropping means someone has it when you've QQ.. sometimes you have to just go with a read.. I once had AKx flop with QQ and I did a cont bet which caused one to fold, and the other to push all-in.. just felt he wouldn't do that with an A or K and it was a monotone flop so after a little thinking I called and he turned over JT.. there's no way you can generalise every position and situation because they're always different..

[usmhot]

This question is not really all that different to the general case of holding any pair, when there are overcards showing on the baord.
The thing to bear in mind is the higher the overcards showing the more likely it is that someone in the hand has paired up with them - given the sorts of pocket cards people play, i.e. Ax, Kx, QJ, QT, JT.
Personally, I have no problem laying down QQ, JJ or any lower pair when A or K come up on the board and my reads indicate an opponent representing the higher pair. For me, its not that different to throwing away a pair of 9s in the hole when overcards come.
The other thing though is, that the higher the pair you're holding the fewer overcards there are that can appear on the board.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

bumping back to front since it is lunch time...

[tigerite]

Ugh. I meant rainbow flop in my post. What on earth was I on about? Anyway, it's not lunchtime here in the UK /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[maryfield48]

In my recent home SNG, we were HU, blinds 300/600, stacks approx $10k each, I look at K-K in the BB. Opp raises to 1k, I pop it back to 3k, he flat calls.

Flop comes A-4-5. I bet $2k, he raises $2k. I fold, show my KK, to induce him to show. He had A-4. Maybe this seems like an easy laydown, but I had to make a read on what he would flat call me with for $2k more pre-flop, and then raise with. This is someone I play with all the time, I knew he almost never lays down to a re-raise, and I also didn't read him to represent the A after I bet into him, without having it. I figure he's 90% to have the A, and I like my chances against him short-handed, so even at a 4:1 chip disadvantage, I'm better off than shoving the rest of my chips in.

I don't know what I would do online against an unknown, but by the time we were HU I think I'd have a read or two.